Patent Attorney Dr. James Lindon Gives His Expert Advice on Patents, Inventor Rights and Intellectual Property Laws

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James Lindon Pharm.D. Ph.D. J.D., P.R.S.

Dr. Lindon has been a patent attorney since 1999. He has prepared and filed patent applications for Owens Corning Fiberglass, University of Toledo, Ford Motor Company, Visteon, Pharmacia, and others. He has also represented clients in litigation in the subjects of patent, trademark, and copyright law. His focus is on small enterprises. He has developed a groundbreaking program to help inventors write and file patent applications. www.mypatentcourse.com

Podcast Notes

1You Tube generated podcast notes, please excuse any typos.
0:00hi everyone and welcome to inventors 0:05Launchpad roadmap to success i am your 0:08host carmine danisco and today on the 0:11launchpad we have a patent attorney he's 0:14an inventor he's a litigator he has 0:17developed some great training courses 0:19for people seeking to get knowledge on 0:22patents different types of patents all 0:25the information that's out there and 0:27he's getting he created courses in the 0:29help in the hopes sorry in the hopes of 0:32giving people information without them 0:35going out and spending thousands and 0:37thousands of dollars without that 0:39knowledge his name is James Linden and i 0:42think i have monde the line now hey 0:44james lee over there yes i am thank you 0:47hey thanks for joining us on the show 0:50today and i can tell you that whenever 0:53we have a patent attorney with as much 0:55knowledge as you we get a lot of views 0:58because patents seem to be one of the 1:01hot topics for inventors and product 1:04developers and I'm hoping that you can 1:06give us some information on all the 1:08miscues and misinformation that's out 1:10there and then be able to lead us into 1:12why you develop those courses that are 1:15awesome i took a look at them and i want 1:18to go over that with you as we progress 1:20through so maybe you can give a little 1:21bit of background for listeners i mean i 1:23gave a quick injury you've probably 1:24heard but i'm sure there's some things i 1:26left out well thank you for the 1:29opportunity to to talk about this a 1:33little bit it is an important topic as 1:35you see I've been a patent attorney 1:36since 1999 that worked for Owens Corning 1:39fiberglass Ford Motor Company a number 1:43of bigger companies and these days I 1:45focused mostly on the individual 1:48inventors small medium-sized firms and 1:51one things that I noticed when I got 1:55away from dealing with some of the 1:57bigger companies was that money became 2:01more of a concern he nobody wants to 2:04waste money even Donald Trump doesn't 2:07want to waste money no matter how much 2:08money you have you don't want to waste 2:10money but 2:12when the question is do you even have 2:16the money to start with or you have a 2:18great deal of difficulty coming up with 2:20the money it becomes even more important 2:22so I just started seeing a number of 2:25people that I thought needed legal help 2:28they sometimes a little help sometimes a 2:31lot of health and money was always an 2:34issue and you know it did sort of bother 2:37me a little bit that people weren't 2:41always able to really follow through 2:43with their ideas because of the 2:45financial constraints so that's why I 2:47develop these materials here and you 2:51know I've read them so that they're good 2:54for everybody it's a combination of 2:56videos I go through the actual law 2:59itself the examples I've got a couple 3:01different examples in their technology 3:04is very straightforward and I think it's 3:08something that's really going to help a 3:09lot of people yeah and I totally agree 3:11with you that it didn't what we find and 3:14one of the reasons we what we even 3:15started this podcast that the inventors 3:16launch pad is to give people knowledge I 3:18mean having people that have knowledge 3:20they have education you you agree with 3:23me or not that when they come to you a 3:25well-informed klein of yours is probably 3:27the easiest client for you to have well 3:29it is and unfortunately I think 3:32sometimes the individual inventors some 3:35of the attorneys don't really care to 3:36work with that popular relation you know 3:39if your ford motor company or owens 3:41corning or someplace like that you know 3:44you're going to file a number of patents 3:45every year you know sort of what to 3:47expect and you know how much it's going 3:50to cost why it costs that much and a 3:53little bit about the process where is if 3:56you're a first timer you know you have 3:59more questions maybe there's things that 4:02are going on that then an inventor does 4:05not understand and so it's a different 4:08set of obstacles to overcome again it's 4:13it's not a matter being good or bad it's 4:15just something that's going through for 4:18the first time is going to come with a 4:20different set of expectations and 4:22somebody that's just doing you know 4:24every day all the time so 4:26that is that is definitely something to 4:28keep in mind yeah hey now what we find 4:32and you probably want to do is people 4:35want to get a patent they feel like that 4:37the first thing they need to do is get a 4:39patent and I think it's because they're 4:40talking to people who don't really know 4:43they're talking to their cousins and 4:44their neighbors and their grandmother 4:45hey I have this idea what should I do 4:47next and there's a lot of people that 4:48don't know that sequence but they think 4:50they do and they have a limited budget 4:53so they're fearful to spend that money 4:54and I think if I just make a little bit 4:57of progress and I go get a patent at 4:59least I can start talking about it when 5:01is it went where is it that a person 5:05should go and actually talk to somebody 5:07like you who has that knowledge I know 5:09you're an inventor too which is great so 5:11you be can relate is there ways for 5:14people to protect their idea in a good 5:16sequence and when do you think they 5:18should actually file a full patent well 5:21obviously every situation is going to be 5:24a little bit different but i would 5:27definitely file when you get to the 5:30point that your current embodiments the 5:33one that you're currently working with 5:35the one you're most excited about is 5:36actually operative before that when 5:39you're still sort of trying to work the 5:41kinks out you're not really quite sure 5:43if it's going to be ready for prime time 5:45maybe it's time to just continue on that 5:49path but when you get to the point where 5:51it looks like it's pretty reliable and 5:54it's something that's really going to be 5:58marketable at some point I think that's 6:01the time to really look at that very 6:03seriously and one of the first questions 6:06I ask people when they call me is how 6:09many of these things do you think we 6:11would sell in a in the first year on the 6:15cars five years in the first ten years 6:16and what do you think profit margin 6:21would be on these you know nobody is 6:25going to spend seven hundred dollars for 6:28the world's best toaster I'm going to do 6:31it unless about the events or some place 6:33like that where you make a lot of talk 6:35let's just to get all day long but you 6:38know you do have to 6:39you know ground yourself in the real 6:40world you do have to sort of ask 6:43yourself who's going to buy this how 6:45much they going to be willing to spend 6:46and you know really think in those terms 6:50because you know simply getting a patent 6:54in and of itself is a way to exclude 6:57your competitors but if you have no 6:59competitors because the market just 7:01doesn't want that product you know you 7:03you have no competitors you have no 7:05competitors to try to keep away because 7:07nobody's going to go into a business and 7:10must say at least think it's when it 7:11makes money yeah you know that's that's 7:14a good point you're probably when people 7:18come to you you're probably wearing so 7:19many different hats you know you're 7:21you're saying hey I'm a patent attorney 7:23but in reality it sounds like you're 7:25trying to lead them you actually like 7:28business development and you know you 7:30have all these different things 7:30organization development are you ready 7:33for that patent is the product worth it 7:35you know it seems like you're you're 7:37really helping them and not even going 7:40down the what your normal everyday 7:41knowledge is I mean it seems like you 7:44have a lot of other knowledge of course 7:45but you're doing other things well 7:47that's one of the big differences and 7:49it's in the transition you know when 7:51when when a corporate client calls in 7:54the sending you some files to file a 7:56patent application I don't have those 7:58kinds of discussions I don't say well 8:00gosh you know how many of you know 8:02Ford's are you know we're going to carry 8:05this model this is going to be on the 8:06trucks or is it going to be on the many 8:08bands you know now let me talk about 8:10your business strategy we've got people 8:12to do all that and I'm if they have my 8:16opinions from gibbets one and it might 8:18be Jemaine it always it going to be off 8:20road on road it's going to be inside the 8:22car outside the car I mean some of these 8:24things might come into play but really a 8:27business sort of acumen that you have to 8:31developer working with individuals or 8:34small businesses it really has to be 8:37suited for them specifically because 8:39some of them have thought about it 8:41alight and some of them have thought 8:44about it very little and wherever you 8:46are it's okay if you knew all the 8:49answers you wouldn't need to be asking 8:52me anything 8:53place so it doesn't bother me if you 8:55comment you know you have a lot of 8:58questions again the course doesn't 9:01really go through the business aspects 9:03as much it's really designed to help 9:07people write in file the application 9:09come if you talk about rare that he 9:12patent system seems to work best it has 9:15we already touched on one of the big 9:17things there is is this something that 9:20somebody would want to copy if you are 9:25not even at that step where you have 9:28something that somebody would want to 9:29copy or something that you faked once it 9:32gets on the market so I would want a 9:34copy then you know you need to really 9:37keep them working on it to you so you 9:39get to that point it seems like the way 9:42you're talking timing obviously funds 9:45are very important when you have an 9:47individual inventor but it also seems 9:48like timing it is really important well 9:51it is and there are some legal deadlines 9:55as you're probably aware to the process 9:58as well you know in the United States 10:01you're not allowed to go out and just 10:03sell the thing for a few years and when 10:05it seems like it's really doing well and 10:07it looks like somebody might be copying 10:09you or might be just about copying you 10:11then file a patent application that 10:13point is too late and you know a number 10:16of our sister countries in the patent 10:18system have what's called an absolute 10:21novelty requirement meaning that they 10:23will allow even less essentially zero 10:26commercialization and that even includes 10:29attempts to sell you kind of talk about 10:32necessarily you know actual sales but 10:35offers to sell can trigger some of those 10:39legal deadline so yes so that the 10:43timeline can be very important in you 10:45need to sort of get somewhat of an 10:48alignment of different events together 10:50and you know obviously I try to do 10:52everything I can to help the client sue 10:54that yeah and as you said there and and 10:56as everyone knows there's so many 10:57misconceptions everyone has their own 10:59way of doing things and they're getting 11:01information for people who don't really 11:02know is there a way whilst I'm 11:05developing my product or 11:06or I want to try to sell it or maybe 11:08even show some companies for a licensing 11:10is there a way at a low cost to to 11:13protect my idea well yes as we go into a 11:18little bit more detail on the course 11:20obviously filing an application is 11:22probably the best way and it's not a 11:26best way only from the legal point of 11:28view but also the business point of view 11:29because some of these folks that you 11:32might want to consider doing business 11:34with they really won't talk to you about 11:36the idea unless you have at least filed 11:39an application because you know ideally 11:43you have filed the application and it's 11:45already ripened into a pad and it's 11:47already been granted but you know when 11:50you file that application at least the 11:53company knows okay at least we know what 11:56this person claims to have invented yeah 11:59just about every invention I've ever 12:01seen is a combination of old stuff and 12:04new stuff it's very rare that you have 12:06something that looks like it just fell 12:08out of you know heaven down on planet 12:11earth you can see that you know with the 12:14you know transistors and backing tunes 12:17and microchips and things like that you 12:19know we got to make up new words for 12:21them but by a large you know the best 12:23majority of things are our improvements 12:26you know this works better so I'm 12:29invention this week parking meters that 12:31accept credit cards and they can be 12:35coupled with an app on your phone so you 12:37know when you're getting low on time and 12:39you can just sort of recharge with this 12:41with the credit card and I way I saw it 12:44I thought gosh I wonder what the city 12:45thinks about that because they can't 12:47give out tickets anymore yeah because 12:49they're you know if you're you know 12:53getting a five minute warning and you're 12:56able to sort of reup then you know maybe 13:00you don't have to worry about the thing 13:01expiring so much but it's probably 13:03offset by revenue by the city making 13:06sure that it's actually collecting all 13:09the money they don't have to have 13:09somebody go around and get the bag of 13:11quarters out all that from the need or 13:14so the technology is really incredible 13:16and this 13:19so the environment that were in is 13:21really right for a lot of innovation Wow 13:23yeah I totally agree and it's growing so 13:26quickly and somebody that's in the 13:29position to yourself and not Annabelle I 13:31don't know how you keep up with the 13:33difference in patterns and writing in 13:34and and actually developing that patent 13:38to actually get it through is phenomenal 13:40to me when I see some of the patents 13:42that that yourself and some of our other 13:45colleagues develop it it really is great 13:47the work that you guys do it's really 13:49protecting innovation I mean the things 13:52that you guys are doing it's it's 13:53awesome yeah you know the way I had it 13:56described to me while I was in law 13:57school was that going into patent law 14:01was sort of like delivering babies in a 14:04way it sort of like the obg my head of 14:06the law business you know you got the 14:09criminal defense guys and you know some 14:14of these other types of law and they're 14:17all they're all important but the thing 14:20that's new for the inventors is they're 14:23going to come to a lawyer and they're 14:25going to say you know look at my baby is 14:28it my baby beautiful look look at this 14:31thing that I've come up with and by a 14:33large people are very excited they're 14:35very optimistic and unfortunately that 14:38we'd zoom getting taken advantage of 14:40from time to time nobody wants to see 14:44that I mean I certainly don't I know you 14:45don't but it is an exciting field and 14:50there's a lot of optimism and you know I 14:54like to say there it's funny almost by 14:57definition every day it's something new 14:58and it's very exciting to be involved in 15:01it it is it is and and i agree with you 15:03you know when the clients come to you 15:05you know even the projects exciting and 15:07I run into the two it's hard for you and 15:10I we don't want to be as excited as we 15:12could be because we're not trying to 15:14convince them to move forward even 15:15though it's a great idea to they have to 15:18really do it we have to remain you know 15:20kind of neutral because we have to know 15:23make that product or like you said you 15:24have to write the right you know put 15:25everything together or we have to give 15:27them the correct advice and it's 15:29difficult sometimes because I sometimes 15:32feed off there and do 15:33Adam but it can be and it can be ass 15:37what about a little bit of a trap and 15:40part of that is when the client comes to 15:42me you know I tell them you know your 15:46field better than I do that's just 15:49always the case whether it's you know 15:51new boating equipment or parking meters 15:54or whatever it is you know it's easy for 15:58me to sit here and say well what's new 16:00to me because it probably does look new 16:03to me but what really matters is what is 16:08the market reaction to it what's the 16:10Patent Office going to think about it 16:12however knew it might look to us because 16:14it's not in our immediate environment 16:17right aratus you know is there a guy in 16:20Dobb you know New Jersey or tucson or 16:23Sacramento I mean it's it's very easy to 16:29get very excited and it can be a little 16:32bit of a letdown if somebody finds out 16:33oh gosh you know it was a good idea and 16:37somebody else had it and the you know 16:41sort of beat me to the punch a little 16:44bit but even in those cases you know 16:47there can still be that silver lining 16:50there because even if the general idea 16:53has been has been patented you know you 16:59may have an improvement for it so you 17:01know with the parking lot the parking 17:05meters to take the credit cards I assure 17:07you that over the next few years there's 17:09going to be some improvements on that in 17:11other ways that the thing losses will 17:13work more reliably faster cheaper and 17:16all the rest of it so it's not as if 17:19there's only one light bulb patent out 17:22there and you know all innovation stops 17:25it really just starts a lot of fields 17:28when the first few patent application 17:30start to flow through and it's really 17:32the best to just sort of figure out you 17:35know if this a combination of all stuff 17:37a new stuff you know what's what's the 17:39new stuff let's try really zoom in on 17:41that 17:42ya know exactly you know so it's never 17:47ending and that's why the reasons that 17:48we love this this job I mean it's such a 17:51great industry if you can give people 17:53education and as we talked about them 17:56our clients being knowledgeable is so 17:59important to us it really is and I want 18:01to switch gears a little bit because a 18:03lot of the questions that we get and you 18:05may also when a client comes to us is 18:08they're fearful of someone feeling their 18:11idea I mean it's it that's really what 18:14the biggest thing of it so so one 18:15question I have to question maybe 18:17they'll fit together and I know you'll 18:19be able to do is you've been doing this 18:20a long time is how often do ideas really 18:23get stolen and can a regular person 18:27actually stop somebody you know the cost 18:31or whatever it is what is those steps 18:33like if someone is stealing my idea is 18:35it can I really stop someone a regular 18:37person well until you file the patent 18:41application it's very difficult and you 18:43know i do get that question a lot myself 18:46about somebody stealing my idea and may 18:50times my response is well you know what 18:52are you doing that's making it so easy 18:54for somebody steal your idea i mean are 18:57you talking about it are you are you 18:59selling it I'm you know you have you 19:01already started to commercialize it I 19:04mean if you've been if you've been the 19:07you know making this product for a 19:09couple years and selling it and the 19:11marketplace can see that there is a 19:13decent profit margin in it you will be 19:17copied and they're not stealing your 19:18idea they are copying you and they're 19:22making money in the way to prevent them 19:25from stealing your idea is number one to 19:27at least put them on notice this is my 19:30idea and this is one of the functions of 19:32the patent system when you do a search 19:35you know like like we were talking about 19:37earlier you know you think you have this 19:40great idea you do a search and you know 19:43you start to be feeling more confirmed 19:46that it really it really is a good idea 19:48because there's maybe nothing really so 19:51close to it on the market and you know 19:54that can be very 19:56charging and you know it is important 19:59that people know what novelty really is 20:04that's the biggest thing a couple of 20:07mistakes I see sometimes is that people 20:10come up with a good idea to make sin on 20:12it yeah and sometimes they sit on it and 20:16try to commercialize it and sometimes 20:18they just stood on they say well I came 20:20up with this idea a few years ago and it 20:23still may be new as far as the 20:25marketplace is concerned but just so 20:28many times I I see that you know when 20:31when you see a need in the marketplace 20:33for some innovation you may just have 20:38some absolutely tremendous insight more 20:41likely if you're seeing the need to pay 20:45for your parking meter and not have to 20:46carry around a roll of quarters in your 20:48pocket somebody else has seen that too 20:50yeah and you know it's it's important 20:56that you not be so concerned about the 21:00idea being stolen that you sit on it 21:03forever and it just sort of you know 21:04rots yeah yeah you know you make some 21:07wine somebody so we might feel some your 21:09vowels but you know you still have to 21:11make the wine I mean catches let's break 21:14stick and it happens and it happens I 21:17mean people come and they say yeah you 21:18know that idea i had that idea 20 years 21:21ago i said but you didn't do anything 21:23right right i mean you know i should 21:29have married Pamela Anderson no we get 0 21:33for all your viewers that are y'all I'm 21:34ghetto she used to be a very attractive 21:36figure yeah and yeah i'm very happy out 21:43of my life no I down here but it is it's 21:46you know to to talk about what you can 21:49do is it is very exciting but at some 21:52point you have to you know you have to 21:56actually put some of this stuff in the 21:59motion and at least educate yourself if 22:03you look into it and it looks like well 22:07you know I got up to the planets from 22:08bad I didn't get a hit 22:09it's all right um you know go home shut 22:13it tear uh and you know get back up on 22:17the horse I mean if you're that sort of 22:19person that comes up with this stuff 22:20because you're creative in that way it's 22:24going to happen again yeah it was like a 22:25singer with a song or you know anybody 22:28that has a trade you know you may not 22:31shit hold on every single time you know 22:36and maybe you want to quit because of 22:37that but a lot of people don't want to 22:40quit they want to keep trying and 22:41because it's just inside of them you got 22:43to get it out you have to work these 22:45ideas out because it's just kind of 22:48people they are well yeah and they gave 22:50it a try you get to go home saying I 22:51tried it I don't have to you know go 22:54another 20 years by saying you know I 22:56should have done that I should have done 22:57this so giving it a try and being 22:58knowledgeable that's what's great about 23:00your courses i just want to mention as 23:02you were saying that you know the 23:04courses will actually give people 23:06knowledge whether they should move 23:07forward or not and if they do decide to 23:09move forward your course will walk them 23:11through that which is I think fantastic 23:12great and I you know for me I consider 23:17it a success although not the most 23:20popular kind of success I consider a 23:22success if somebody acquires the 23:25knowledge about the system and they say 23:29you know as I look more into this and I 23:33learning more about it maybe family 23:36patent application is not the way to go 23:38and you know maybe I'll you know modify 23:42things and do something else uh you know 23:45that's life I mean that's just that's 23:49just part of living down here on planet 23:52earth you know you know the old saying 23:55about the thousands of ways not to make 23:58a light bulb I mean we laugh when we 24:00hear that but it's really true you know 24:02you are going to you know all before you 24:06walk I mean I've got I've got two boys 24:08now 13 and 16 I can like still remember 24:12when they were first trying to walk then 24:14I get up and fall down they cried and 24:16get up they call them you cry and 24:18eventually you know they get up and they 24:21don't fall down as much yeah 24:23I fall down sometimes and I gotta get 24:27back up you know yeah that's you know he 24:31gotta develop a little bit of a tough 24:34skin in this in this industry and you 24:37know knowledge is just you know what 24:40separates us from the beasts of the 24:41field you know correct correct and and 24:43and the good part about it is with the 24:45advent of the internet instant 24:47information there's no reason now to be 24:49fearful about too much you can go out 24:51there you can see it's our products out 24:53there you can look around if it is out 24:55there you can forget about it think of a 24:56different product right yeah I mean 24:59there's no reason to be sit back and be 25:00fearful of telling something out the 25:02idea now right ah you know it's hard to 25:07have too much knowledge I'm not even 25:09sure that's possible but as long as it's 25:12accurate knowledge and you know what to 25:13do with it the more you learn about I 25:16mean at the very least I tell people 25:19with their looking around doing a search 25:21to see what other products might be out 25:24there at the very least you're learning 25:27what your competitors are doing and 25:30maybe that is going to end up helping 25:34you maybe it's funny enough being 25:35encouraging maybe it's going to end up 25:37being discouraging but I mean what's the 25:40alternatives to not know what your 25:42competitors are doing I mean that's 25:44that's even worse so now educate 25:47yourself about your legal options and 25:49you know sort of getting the lay of the 25:51land in whatever product field you have 25:53to be working in that sucks it's good 25:56stuff even though it's that it does 25:58always work out the way you thought it 25:59yeah but you're doing something some 26:01kind of forward movement is so important 26:03especially in this industry if you sit 26:05back someone is always thinking about 26:07the same thing you are yeah i'm moving 26:09they're going to get the prize there's 26:11no doubt about it now we're running a 26:13little bit low on time there's two 26:14things I will still want to cover and 26:15then go over some of the contact 26:16information that you have one is can you 26:19give us a quick some feedback on your 26:22thoughts on provisional patents and and 26:27and if they're useful well they are 26:30useful and again it the course goes 26:33under some detail about this 26:35we won a sort of myths and 26:41misconceptions I hear is that you know a 26:46provisional application is kind of quick 26:48and dirty you know you can follow for 65 26:51bucks and you know you're protected for 26:54a year the way I think about it is the 26:57provisional application is sort of like 27:00the foundation of a house at your 27:03building and it is going to support 27:07whatever comes afterwards as the 27:09structure being put on top of it though 27:12if in the legal requirements are exactly 27:16the same this is something that you 27:18don't see another out on you we look at 27:21some of the websites that are out there 27:22the only difference between the 27:25provisional application and utility 27:27application really adept utility 27:29application is it has to have claims 27:33which could be time-consuming to develop 27:36and you know they're there is some 27:39increased costs there there's a few 27:41other formalities a lot of people get 27:43rolled into some false sense of security 27:46with the provisionals because they don't 27:49get any negative feedback from the 27:51Patent Office refile it we get a filing 27:54date an application number and they 27:56think well that was easy it wasn't easy 27:59and you know the Patent Office is not 28:04going to examine that they're not to 28:06give you feedback no matter how good or 28:08bad it is so you know it's it can be a 28:13little bit deceptive in our own minds 28:17you know to really think that we have 28:20you know accomplished something great 28:23just by getting the filing date and an 28:26application number and you know you 28:28really need to fully disclose that 28:31invention in that provisional just like 28:34you do in the utility application 28:35sometimes they will cut you a little bit 28:38of slack on whether the drawings are you 28:41know perfect and this sort of thing but 28:43you know really everything that in a 28:47utility application 28:49in a provisional application and I don't 28:52hear that very often when I see this 28:54subject being discussed yeah I totally 28:56agree and i look at the provisional 28:57patent has just another tool when it's a 29:00special d thing we need to be used the 29:02correct way just like any specialty tool 29:04correct and you need to speak with 29:05somebody like yourself and you say this 29:07is the this is the right tool for the 29:09job this is the right tool for the job 29:10whether it's a full you full patent very 29:12provision or whatever it is has to be 29:14done the right way I agree yeah 29:17absolutely in you know I tell people 29:19when they're looking at a provisional 29:20application I say a silent provisional 29:24application is for people who need time 29:27it gives you a year and what do you need 29:31that time for well to maybe raise money 29:34to maybe improve the product sort start 29:38looking at commercial embodiments may be 29:40marketing channels you know what's the 29:44cheapest way to make this you know 29:47things like that but really if you're 29:50ready to file utility application now 29:52filing a provisional now and they're 29:55waiting you know 11 months or so to file 29:57the utility application you just doubled 30:00your class you filed twice now you know 30:04the drawings that you used for the first 30:06two issues for the second case you know 30:09especially if you're using the same 30:11attorney or if you're doing it yourself 30:13you you know it's not as if everything 30:18has doubled about it but you know if you 30:21don't need time you don't need a 30:23provisional application that is all it 30:26is going to give you you can't go in if 30:29you see somebody topping you you can't 30:32go into court and make them stop it's 30:34just it's very limited in in what it 30:38gives you and those long as people 30:40understand that realize what you're 30:41doing they decide that you want to do it 30:43that's cool there's our sessle nothing 30:45wrong with it like you say correct but 30:47they're informed they're making any 30:48marks an informed decision I mean it's a 30:51big difference than just going in blind 30:52saying I'm protected right yeah okay 30:55absolutely right good alright James I'm 30:58sorry to say we're we're kind of at a 31:00time I would love you to 31:01you give us some information how people 31:05can not only get in contact with view 31:07your website but also I know that 31:09someone listens are going to want to 31:10check out those courses that you have so 31:12maybe that and and just let you know 31:13everyone that's listening you'll have to 31:15stop it right down this down the 31:16information that James gives we will 31:18have it on our show notes and also on 31:20his website ok well the website is mike 31:24patton course calm and the gmail address 31:28is my patent course @ gmail.com ok I'll 31:33try to keep it as advising as requested 31:35kid we do have a special offer for the 31:38listeners and viewers i do have a 31:41special lesson that I've prepared on the 31:44difference between the provisional 31:46applications and silly applications we 31:49are going to offer that for a limited 31:50time at no cost to people that want to 31:54learn more it'll cost you a little bit 31:56of your time you you don't have to see 32:01my my beautiful face you know actually 32:07it is in the course a little bit but you 32:08don't have to talk you can do it in your 32:10own home in your own time however it 32:13works best for you and you know the 32:16worst thing that could happen would be 32:17that you would learn something sir and 32:19like we've already discussed it it's 32:23very rarely a bad thing knowledge is is 32:25so important in this injured in any 32:27industry but in this industry particular 32:29as much knowledge as you can get before 32:31you move forward because with the most 32:33inventors as we know even myself funds 32:35or resources are limited and right we 32:38don't want to make a misstep that can 32:39set you back a year or two years so very 32:41important especially and offering that 32:43free information a freak or stings is 32:45awesome because I know that some of the 32:47lessons are going to take advantage of 32:48that I would recommend as get as much 32:50knowledge as you can and write be armed 32:53with as much education as you can so 32:56everyone James thank you so much for 32:59being on the show today I would love to 33:01invite you to come back at some point 33:03we're going to get some questions we're 33:04going to get some information and I 33:06would love to have you back on the show 33:08if that's okay that would be great I 33:10love working with this population is 33:13screw 33:14just one more thing about the course you 33:17know we've got a couple options that are 33:19less than a thousand bucks oh you're not 33:22looking at you know a big legal expense 33:26or anything like that so Allah please 33:28check it out no and maybe it's something 33:30that you want to look into more no it's 33:32definitely saving money there's no doubt 33:34about it something like that so all 33:36right James thank you very much and you 33:38talk to you soon take care of my friend 33:40you too bye bye