Tony Rogers CEO of Creative Mechanism is Helping Inventors With Expert Advice

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Tony has thirty years of experience helping design, engineering, and prototype development teams bring their ideas from concept to reality. He has helped countless companies create mass produceable injection molded parts and then successfully introduce those products to market.

Podcast Notes

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0:00hired one and welcome to inventors 0:04Launchpad roadmap to success i am your 0:08host carmine danisco and today on the 0:10launchpad we have a veteran product 0:14developer I mean this gentleman has done 0:16it all he does prototyping he does 0:19machines molding he works mostly with 0:22plastic but he has connections with 0:25everyone in the industry he works with a 0:28lot of commercial innovators inventors 0:31and things in that sense his name is 0:34Tony Rogers and he is the president and 0:36CEO of creative mechanisms hey Tony over 0:40there i'm here at carmines thank you hey 0:43Tony thanks for joining us today I gave 0:45a quick quick little intro once you go a 0:49little bit of what your company does and 0:51what you do over there and then we'll 0:53kind of talk about how you got started 0:54okay sure well creative mechanisms is 0:58really an engineering company we 1:00specialize in the design engineering and 1:02prototyping of mostly injection molded 1:06mechanical consumer product okay great 1:11great and when you say mold injection I 1:16know you like to work mostly with 1:18plastics and I know you were probably 1:21worth it's all types of material 1:23obviously is there a reason just just 1:26the plastics is it just because it 1:28experience knowledge yeah it really is 1:31just a area of specialty we in consumer 1:38products most of it is as small and 1:41things have been converted over to 1:43plastics and one of our specialty is 1:45converting a metal objects over into 1:48plastics it really is a cost factor the 1:50the you know the use of plastics is has 1:53been driven by the desire to to lower 1:58costs for consumer goods oh that's 2:01interesting it's funny that you say that 2:03I I want to get back to that good so 2:05converting the metal components which 2:07are a little bit more expensive over to 2:09a less costly plastic probably save some 2:11weight also in the 2:12wait for shipping save the estate costs 2:16of materials and and really kind of ease 2:20ease of use with with plastic with 2:23injection molding she really can control 2:25tolerances you know something a lot 2:27better and thin cast metals of you know 2:31and so it really comes down to making a 2:34better product and making it at a lower 2:36cost and also as I think what's driven a 2:39little bit is the the production numbers 2:41over time have has greatly increased we 2:45just converted a project over that I 2:48mean it was designed in the 50s is all 2:50cast components when they started making 2:53this thing in the 50s i'm sure the / you 2:55know the production numbers were we're 2:57very low you know they're almost am 2:58built but you know now they're they're 3:01selling a great greater quantity we 3:03redesigned the whole product made it all 3:06out of injection molded plastics and and 3:10you know you're able to injection mold 3:12these things that a rapid pace do the 3:15assembly much easier and and you can 3:18actually lower the production costs 3:20considerably wow that's really real 3:23interest especially since a product 3:24that's been around for so long being 3:26able to look at it and look at and 3:28reconfigure it and start actually saving 3:31money again even though they've been 3:33making money over this time hopefully 3:34anyway yeah but let me go back a little 3:37bit again I did a quick intro and I was 3:40so excited about this interview because 3:42you have so much knowledge so much 3:43information that our listeners are going 3:46to get because this is one of the major 3:48fields and major worries that an 3:50inventor has but let's go back a little 3:52bit I know that your company and you've 3:54been doing this for a long time probably 3:57I think in the mid-eighties you started 3:59doing this and I found it fascinating 4:01that you kind of started off making just 4:03from some information I found making 4:05toys is that correct you know we we 4:08started really as a as a model shop back 4:10in the mid 80s like you said boy things 4:13were very different back then but uh you 4:18know we there were companies that were 4:20called model shops and they just took 4:22blueprints that 4:23then that were that were done by design 4:26designers design companies or by the 4:29internal company and would create the 4:32prototypes for a for production for a so 4:36so it would be a we started with the toy 4:40industry and in the diecast car industry 4:43companies like the Franklin Mint and 4:44danbury mint we would make their 124th I 4:49cast cars well you'd make them you'd 4:50actually do it twice the size you do it 4:52at 112 scale you'd make tooling patterns 4:55that would be sent over to China for 4:57them to copy and reduce down by half 5:00into injection molds so you know it was 5:05very labor-intensive and we all know 5:07what happened with the labor in the US 5:09and you know they finally they finally 5:12figured out that they could do the whole 5:14package and you know a lot of the work 5:16went off to China but you know back in 5:18the 80s and 90s there was it was it was 5:20really artistry that was that was used 5:24to make toys and collectibles for the 5:29you know for industries like that and 5:32you know all the tooling patterns all 5:35the models all the photography models 5:38that was all made in the US wow you know 5:40that's that's kind of what I wanted to 5:42kind of dig into when I read I'd say 85 5:45what a difference from then to now that 5:49not only the the way it's done but the 5:51time that's involved must be enormous 5:54differences yeah with the I mean the 5:56whole the whole thing with 3d printing 5:58now and everything is just the we have 6:01one point had 40 people making models 6:03and then producing you know and then 6:04carving these matters a lot of it was 6:06really hand done you had milling 6:08machines and you had lays but but you 6:10know really a lot of it was was just 6:12hand sculpted I mean you think about all 6:14the curves on their own a car or the you 6:16know the sculpture that that's done in 6:19an action figure let's say all that is 6:22really sculpted work and you know it 6:26just it was extremely labor-intensive a 6:29lot of people and it was the model was 6:32all the money and now you flip to the 6:34day and everything is all now in the 6:36engine 6:37it's you know you've got to work on 6:39their 3d file everything's about the 3d 6:41file even now if it's a sculpture it's 6:44all free be drawn it's all it's all done 6:47on the computer and then the team model 6:49so to speak is relatively inexpensive 6:52now wow yeah talk about how times have 6:55changed and I mean being able to be in 6:58it from the beginning and seeing the 7:00transitions and the iterations it must 7:04be pretty cool to see being able to 7:06create such a great product now too and 7:09the waist or if there's our issues or 7:12problems how you can rectify them so 7:14quickly yeah it is amazing what 7:16technology is done and yes changes are 7:19are one of the things that just make it 7:21really easy and basically when I see now 7:24is more iteration so you're able to 7:28certainly back then you put all that 7:30time and into into a model though has to 7:32be it all had to be right up front and 7:35you didn't get a chance to experiment 7:38you didn't get a chance to try different 7:40things was just too expensive now today 7:42you really can do you know we you can 7:45take it concept of mechanism concept and 7:48and and try ten different mechanisms to 7:51make it work and even build models 7:53little rough breadboard models we call 7:55them just just you know very rough 7:58models to see if something will work and 8:00and try it across you know ten different 8:03ways so you see which one's going to 8:05work the best and then develop that one 8:07it's just a luxury you couldn't have had 8:10back in the day when it was all done by 8:12him yeah yeah Wow is this something you 8:16know back in the 80s is something you 8:17always wanted to do or did you kind of 8:19fall into doing it just fell in love we 8:22you've made something and just fell in 8:23love with making things there is just 8:25something that you've always wanted to 8:26do it was funny it was an industry that 8:28I fell into definitely um you know 8:32they're there was a little actually a 8:33little hub in our area here that used to 8:36service a venomous because of the 8:39companies that are around I think that's 8:41what happens a lot in industries so you 8:44had a company like taiko toys it was 8:46nearest and you had the Franklin Mint 8:47that was nearer 8:48and and out of that spawned companies to 8:52support them so there were all kinds of 8:54little companies in this area fiat 8:56graphics for the packaging and their 8:58packaging companies graphic companies 9:00and then model shops and design studios 9:03and then you know it was all really 9:05supported by by small companies that the 9:09work for these large large manufacturers 9:14and there was no email there was no 9:16email you put the rolled up prints and 9:19put them in the in the US mail it was 9:21hilarious you think back at of how it 9:24did we send out our quotes by regular 9:26mail you know and if you heard back from 9:28the client in a week that was normal and 9:31go and then it just it was such a slower 9:35page just because it had to be just 9:37because the you know there were the 9:40options for this this fast communication 9:41and this high-speed activity yeah yeah 9:44and you know I think back in the two and 9:47a lot of products that night I always 9:49think back at the automotive industry 9:50and and they say you know all parts were 9:53made of metal and all the parts are made 9:55of this because in reality I mean would 9:57have been so hard as in today to make 9:59those parts out of plastic right back 10:01then oh yeah well yeah I mean that you 10:04know the relatively speaking that says 10:07that's new technology so you know it 10:09really took a long time to become a 10:11maijin and then it is still really 10:13progressing you know it's I mean it's 10:16interesting what's happening in you know 10:19in today we've really lost the ability 10:22to make tools for injection molded 10:24plastics in the u.s. that that industry 10:26is diet that all moved off to China 10:28China is where the good tools are made 10:30and and I think it's going to be 10:33technology that brings it back I mean 10:35you're starting to see that today with 10:37just the the advent of using 3d printed 10:41plastic tools to make make an injection 10:45mold inserts so that they go you know so 10:49that those inserts can go into an 10:51injection molded tool and make a plastic 10:52part so it's it that that type of 10:56technology you know I don't think we're 10:59going to see toolmakers come back to the 11:00United States but we're going to see 11:01technology come in and replace the way 11:06it used to be just like 3d printing is 11:08replace the way we used to make models I 11:11think you're going to see a shift I 11:13think you're starting to see that shift 11:15and technology happen in the injection 11:18molding mark wow that's that's amazing 11:20so uh you'll have a big night just 11:23called big hunk of metal cool and and 11:26you'll 3d print kind of an insert that 11:29will have the shape of the product 11:31that's going to be injected molding 11:33correct that is very correct and in it 11:36that that technology is in its infancy 11:39right now wow that now that's amazing I 11:42could really I could really see that 11:45coming around quickly because I agree 11:46with you about this the tooling in China 11:49we've we've had molding and I know 11:51obviously do molds and truly made in 11:54several different countries and it just 11:56for some retrying as fast your good 11:58quality stuff and it's where I mean 12:02where the work goes the talent rises so 12:04I mean you can't really get good at 12:06something unless you have a lot of that 12:08work to to teach yourself and to educate 12:10your employees and I mean to gain 12:12experience you know becoming great if 12:14something comes from experience so if 12:17the work is not available to you you're 12:19not going to get good at it so if 12:21there's an abundance of work in that air 12:23in an area you know they're going to 12:25become the experts and China has become 12:27the experts in children yeah yeah I 12:30agree and and and probably you have seen 12:32it to I mean we have we have factories 12:34out there and I know you guys probably 12:36deal with a lot of people out there also 12:37but but the sizes of the factories that 12:40are out there or it's hard to explain 12:42and and you know we're going to get into 12:44the inventor side of this and in a 12:46second I love to ask some questions 12:48about the inverse project but it's hard 12:49to explain when you get a person that 12:51comes to you and ask you to make a small 12:53little product because you're like well 12:56you know what the China you just like 12:58Chinese huge yeah that's our fun is all 13:02about the amount of work that's being 13:03visits being done there you know that 13:07used to be done here but you know no 13:09longer and it really mean and it's not 13:12just the u.s. so they've not only taken 13:14you know 13:14not only the work from the US in terms 13:17of that making product and labor 13:19intensive product is really what we're 13:21talking about yeah you know that that is 13:23the fit for china manufacturing is 13:25something that requires a lot of 13:26assembly a lot of labor so I mean it's 13:29not only the u.s. it's the rest of the 13:31world it's Europe and and you know and 13:33then other go all the other countries 13:35you know there's a tremendous amount of 13:38work going on there ya know I know 13:41there's no doubt about it so I know that 13:43you do a lot of commercial based work 13:45and and because of the industry that 13:49you're in and just your your website 13:51which by the way if you're just coming 13:52in creative mechanisms calm love the 13:55website Tony it's awesome very very 13:57informative and that's one of the 13:58reasons again I wanted to have you on 14:00the show so that because you're giving 14:02up so much information to inventors 14:05product developers people that are 14:07looking to make a prize that have an 14:08idea and I know that most of your work 14:11we're probably what ninety percent 14:13ninety-four percent is commercial basis 14:15yeah we don't mean we do a little bit of 14:18industrial but pretty much we're 14:20consumer products company yes and that's 14:23great and the good part is is that well 14:24the reason I did it because I know that 14:26inventors are probably always a protein 14:28here you know and and one of the other 14:33big things about what I love that you're 14:35doing might we working taking breaks or 14:39Angela so again one of the great parts 14:44about what you're doing is I know that 14:46inventors are approaching you and 14:47instead of what most product developers 14:50or machine shops are or big large 14:53companies would you do just turning them 14:55way you're giving them information not 14:57only are you giving them information but 14:59you found a way to make sure that they 15:02they can absorb that knowledge that they 15:05actually will learn because you know you 15:07could give them information they just 15:08walk away with it like oh no you gave me 15:10for any information but you're giving 15:12them a way to learn and that's so good 15:14especially for inventors they need that 15:17guidance yeah it's it's taken a while to 15:21figure out kind of the right path you 15:25know because because there is a balance 15:26you know most 15:28our work is with companies we're dealing 15:30with companies who make product day in 15:31and day out and educating if somebody 15:34calls in I have a great idea I'd like to 15:36talk to you about it you can spend a 15:38great deal of time educating them and 15:41through that education they find out 15:43that that this is just not the right 15:45thing for them to do you know and and 15:48and so you know we're not moving forward 15:51where the project they've gotten a lot 15:54of information so what what we've done 15:56to to take care of that or to help them 16:00and help us is we started with a 16:03invention consultation where we would 16:08you no charge for our time to meet with 16:11somebody and I found that I was really 16:14saying the same thing repeatedly you 16:16know of what we did was we developed a 16:20class for inventors so the veterans can 16:23take a class again a really a lot of the 16:26information about the invention process 16:28and then after the class we could 16:31continue the conversation if it makes 16:33sense ya know it and it does as you said 16:36you only have a certain amount of time 16:38in your day so do the people that we 16:40were working with but you still want to 16:42help the inventors and you don't want to 16:45turn them away because they're going to 16:47go get that information and in some 16:49place times it's going to be in the 16:50wrong spot you know and so I could see 16:53you saying I don't want to turn them 16:55away because I don't want them to get 16:57yeah you know go the wrong peered person 17:01I guess is the best way to say it so I 17:04mean I think that's awesome and I went 17:06through through one of your courses i 17:08know you have several and not only did 17:10you make these courses but they her 17:11extremely well done well thank you thank 17:14you it does take a lot of work but again 17:18it was another sense you know i had been 17:22saying this I've been you know preaching 17:24is the same information for quite a 17:26while and like I said I don't want 17:28people going off and and going to some 17:32of the more unscrupulous invention 17:35companies that aren't there to help 17:37they're there to take money correct no I 17:40agree and as you and I 17:41both know any vendors that are out there 17:43sometimes the inventors are somewhat 17:47emotionally attached to their idea yeah 17:49it's actually it's it's the wrong place 17:52to start but yes people do get very 17:53emotionally attached and they don't 17:55think about the invention processes of 17:57business and and it is I mean I know 18:01it's wonderful to see that the idea you 18:03have come to the market but it doesn't 18:06make any sense to see that come to the 18:07market if you're if you're not it going 18:10to make money at it or at least break 18:12even so I mean everything that I talked 18:15about or do is really from from a 18:17business standpoint I mean you're you're 18:19going through this in the invention 18:22process taking a product to market it is 18:25very is a very expensive proposition 18:27it's expensive in terms of money it's 18:29expensive in terms of time and an 18:32emotional expense there's a lot you know 18:35a lot it takes a lot out of you so if 18:37you're not getting return on it there's 18:39no point in doing that's that's my thing 18:41so you know so two things you can either 18:44make a lot of money because you spent a 18:46lot of money or you can reduce the 18:49amount that you spend in order to 18:52increase your odds of success and this 18:55and there's several avenues to you're 18:57not saying hey don't do this you're 18:59saying hey let's look at your idea make 19:02sure that is feasible if it is feasible 19:05then you have a few ways to go i mean i 19:07know you talk about you can license it 19:09you can manufacture you can just make a 19:11prototype i know there's a lot of things 19:13that you talk about again it's not just 19:14throwing money at something because you 19:16know your grandmother and your cousin 19:17said it's a good idea yeah absolutely 19:20you really want to have a plan I mean 19:23what I haven't thought of throwing you 19:24want to have a plan that equates to a 19:25budget and a budget that gets you to the 19:27end to the end result so I mean if 19:30you're someone that has hundreds of 19:32thousands of dollars available you can 19:34talk about manufacturing at peace and 19:36taking it to market yourself if you 19:38don't have that you better adjust your 19:40plan to fit your budget the licensing is 19:43one great way and actually that's what I 19:45encourage most inventors to do I know 19:48that everyone gets queasy oh you know 19:50I'm only going to make pennies on the 19:51dollar but you're only going to spend 19:53pennies on the dollar as well 19:55no I agree entity any of that invented 19:58that has you know those hundreds of 20:00thousand dollars definitely go see Tony 20:02and in the right direction is no doubt 20:05about but in the end up in the 99 20:07percentile you're exactly right Tony it 20:10has to be a plan it has to be done in 20:12the right sequence and that's what I 20:13loved about your website about what you 20:15guys are doing you're not saying hey 20:16this is what we this is what we work 20:18with all your inventor go away you're 20:20not doing that you're trying to give 20:22them invent give the inventor that 20:24information that even if you can't help 20:26them they can seek out or put a plan 20:28together or the best case scenario is 20:30they find out that the idea may not make 20:33them as much money as they hoped or 20:36whatever it is yeah i really i mean if 20:39if you think if the idea is not going to 20:42work it's just so much better to you 20:45know cut loose move on to the next idea 20:48there's there's lots of ideas out there 20:50and you know um you've got a you've got 20:53to gauge the quality of your ID and it's 20:57not just is it a great idea for the 20:58marketplace is it an idea that i can 21:01monetize can i can i make money at this 21:04so i mean i get i get people to come to 21:07me with an idea that's not in the mint 21:09in an industry that they know the idea 21:12is a huge mechanical object so size is 21:17money a complexity is money um so so you 21:22know you've got this this very large 21:24item that that's very complicated to do 21:27that's going to be a very expensive 21:29development path also a very expensive 21:31manufacturing pet you know the person 21:34has no experience in that particular 21:36industry and if they want to bring this 21:37to market that's a recipe for disaster 21:39in my mind you really got to start with 21:42something that you know an industry that 21:45you know and start with a lower price 21:47development item it just you know it and 21:51then I know that's hard to find but you 21:53really got to judge your idea in that 21:56kind of criteria just just for the 22:00simple reason of increasing your odds of 22:02success mmm that's that is true i mean 22:06we we get that here at the launchpad 22:08the inventor will have several ideas 22:10which we all have ideas and an inventor 22:12most of the time has several they have 22:14their inventors most notebook full of 22:16ideas and they want to tickle but they 22:18always seem to pick the the most 22:21complicated or the largest or whatever 22:22it is and you know you want them if they 22:25are going to do something start off of 22:26that smaller product it might not be as 22:28bountiful or might not make us look 22:30you'll gain so much experience only 22:33through the process and that's what 22:34Tony's trying to get these inventors to 22:37realize it you are going to do it you 22:38need to get that experiences I mean 22:40that's the most important bit it's the 22:43first question I asked if you brought a 22:45product product to market for me ya know 22:48it sells everything I mean if somebody's 22:49been through that experience you know 22:52that's a different that's a different 22:53animal than having never done it because 22:56there's just there's just so much to 22:59learn ya know there is no doubt about it 23:02now going back to you were talking about 23:06different products is there something or 23:08an industry or a product type that that 23:11seems to be easier to get out to the 23:15market or does it seem like it's more 23:16prevalent that people are coming to you 23:19with man that's a tough one it I think 23:22that I think in today's environment it's 23:24harder and harder to get a product to 23:26market one the vast number of things 23:29that are coming to the market oh and and 23:32two companies are much more resistant to 23:35working with inventors and licensing I 23:38mean you know 15 years ago there was a 23:41huge invention community a better 23:43community professional inventors I 23:45worked with a lot of them that industry 23:49has really died off so and I think it's 23:52done I know it's died off because it's 23:54just much harder to do it's a much 23:57harder endeavor now to get something to 24:00market than it used to be or even to get 24:02something license so you know we're you 24:05in if you're going to be successful in 24:08either licensing or the manufacturing 24:11side you really have to have done your 24:12homework and have your have your ducks 24:14in a row be ready for ya research 24:17research seems like it's one of the most 24:20important things but in my 24:22experience and I'm not sure about yours 24:24it's a lot of our clients have come to 24:26us they haven't really done the research 24:28they have this idea they say that they 24:30researched it yeah say it's nothing out 24:32there like it but it's cyber crimes 24:34doesn't seem to be the case III guess 24:36people are very good with Google i'm not 24:39sure but i can't tell you how many 24:40people have paid me for a invention 24:44consultation and I've SAT there with 24:46them in the first couple minutes and 24:47brought up the idea that they're paying 24:49me to talk about and it's embarrassing 24:52for them and then you know and I 24:54understand that and all but I mean if 24:57you know there hey there it is it's out 25:00there somebody has done it you really 25:03gotta you've got to be good at searching 25:06and and really kind of broaden your 25:09horizons and searching and look looking 25:11you know look at what's out there and 25:13then you know on the foot side I will 25:16get well you know I've never seen it out 25:18there so therefore you know you know 25:20this is this has got to be a great idea 25:22I'll tell you there are people of full 25:25of ideas and if you're if you are in an 25:29industry in which there's you know large 25:32companies developing products in that 25:34industry and believe me that they 25:36thought of that idea and there's a 25:38reason it's not on the market they 25:41really got to get a good healthy amount 25:45of skepticism so you know this seems 25:47like such a no-brainer to you and 25:49there's you know you know three 25:51companies the size of Procter & Gamble 25:53in this business you know why haven't 25:56they brought this to market because you 25:59know I've sat on product development 26:01boards people have thought of that idea 26:02if they're in that business mmm so 26:05that's true so so if it's not out there 26:08I mean it'sit's if it's not out there 26:11and you've done searching and which 26:13again we call blind searching and they 26:16really don't want to find it you know 26:19but it's good i mean either way they're 26:21coming to you and even if you charged a 26:23thousand dollars 5,000 in the long run 26:26you're actually saving them money by 26:29giving that information because you 26:31don't want them to go and buy molding 26:33and buy you know fill up their garage of 26:35this product that's already I 26:36they're you that's the worst time to 26:38find out so absolutely no that's where 26:40you're talking about be preventative you 26:43know gotta be truthful with yourself and 26:45you know there's a saying don't fall in 26:47love with your idea I mean you got to be 26:49truthful with your business and then on 26:50the other side is if it's not out there 26:52there's gotta be a reason why not yeah 26:55and you really need to get up again like 26:58the e says blind searching people don't 27:00want to think of why it's not out there 27:01why you know what's wrong and that's why 27:04I say you really should work in an 27:05industry that you're familiar with 27:06because there are so many you know so 27:12many intricacies in every industry and 27:14you know the ways of the supply chains 27:17work in an industry i mean i've had 27:19people bring me you know ideas for for 27:22packaging and you know in the first 27:24couple minutes well that'll never make 27:25sense because that's not the way that a 27:28peanut butter company buys package you 27:30know they're not going to make that 27:33it'll make the packaging themselves they 27:34buy it from other companies so you know 27:37this idea is that will never work and 27:39that's you know if you're not familiar 27:42with an industry and how it works and 27:44how the supply chain works you know some 27:47of those things that may seem you know 27:48like a no-brainer or you know just never 27:51going to happen just because of the way 27:54that industry works mmm I mean this 27:56seems like an industry that if you 27:58really don't know and you should you 28:01should get somebody that does and maybe 28:02hire them or bring your widow or a 28:05consultation right I mean I really 28:08should yeah talk talk talk and come in 28:11this is where the whole licensing thing 28:12comes in you're leveraging someone 28:14else's expertise and I mean they know 28:17that industry they know what's going to 28:18sell they know what's not going to sell 28:20that they know you know and if you've 28:22done very little investment in order to 28:24present that that idea then one if 28:27you're you're you're talking to that 28:29company and they're explaining to you 28:30you know if you get in the door with 28:33your idea there's an education you're 28:36going to get you know you start to learn 28:37that industry and many many industries 28:41like to extremism was was one that wind 28:43is reused to leverage heavily upon 28:46inventors and the professional invention 28:49companies 28:50a lot of them would only work with the 28:51professional invention companies because 28:53they knew the industry and they didn't 28:56have to educate the inventor wow I 28:59didn't know that that's that's very 29:01interesting in there a minimum and any 29:04several more question but you brought 29:07just one way is there a minimum if I'm 29:09going to trying to license a product is 29:10there a minimum I have to use due to 29:13that pride do I had does it have to be 29:14real tall ready does it have to be proud 29:16of that does that to be functional 29:17drawing does it have to be a patent you 29:21have to do the minimum to communicate 29:23the idea that really is what it what it 29:26comes down to and so that's going to be 29:28idea dependent so if you're bringing an 29:32idea for a mechanism that you know does 29:35something that's never been done before 29:36you're going to have to prove that 29:38you're going to have to build a model if 29:40you're building if you're bringing 29:42something that's just you know obviously 29:43and you know that that's going to work 29:45and you know how you know you know why 29:47it's going to work i mean you know i can 29:50look at that idea and and no in the 29:53harpy whether that makes sense or not 29:55that's all you have to do to present 29:57that that can be very minimal that can 29:59be a rendering that could be maybe a 30:01little video animation that's a very 30:04inexpensive to do it can be a very 30:06creeper tonight people always think that 30:08they have to take their their garage 30:10built mock up to the next level not 30:12necessarily if it communicates the idea 30:15that's uh that's very helpful because we 30:19do get people that come to us they want 30:21licensing they want to do some licensing 30:23and we try to explain to them you 30:25already but they have this idea that 30:28they have to finish it they have to go 30:30further and further I don't know if it's 30:31just their emotions or what it is and 30:33we're trying to push them down saying go 30:36go get to get the feedback yeah I mean 30:39if they want you to build a better model 30:41they're going to ask you to build a 30:42better model and your and your response 30:44to that is will you help contribute you 30:46know so no I mean you know the more if 30:49your licensing something the more that 30:51you can get the potential license or to 30:53pay a licensee to pay the you know the 30:56better so you really want to put most of 30:59the the expense on them they're going to 31:02push back there's going to be an okay 31:03negotiation but at least you're dealing 31:05with an interested party if you're 31:07building that better model blind and 31:09that better that better model is going 31:11to cost you a lot of money uh so you 31:13know if you're building that without 31:14knowing that someone's interested and 31:17that's unnecessary in my in my mind I 31:19you know and I build the models I you 31:21know I boy i'm out i'm in that business 31:23but i don't want to take your money if 31:25it's not going to get you somewhere it's 31:26not going to move you further down the 31:28path so it really did it really is its 31:32idea dependent depends on whether 31:34whether the you know the idea needs it 31:38to demonstrate functionality or 31:40something like that so the necessary you 31:44know for you listeners the necessary you 31:46know steps depending on the route you 31:48want to go but the necessary not what 31:51you think is necessary engines what so 31:56you're dealing with a very educated 31:57person they're somewhat very educated in 32:00their in their field and in their 32:02business so they're going to know I mean 32:05they you know they get pitched ideas all 32:08the time they're very used to looking at 32:10ideas they're there you know you know 32:14for the most part they're there they're 32:17very used to seeing and understanding 32:19concepts and then getting through it 32:21this is somebody on the product 32:22development side you know at certain 32:24levels when you start when something 32:27starts moving through a large company 32:29and you know you're going to make a 32:31prison patient to marketing yes they're 32:33going to want it to look like a product 32:34but at that station that's not 32:36necessarily is something the inventor 32:39needs to meet needs to put their money 32:42into because the other side of it is 32:44that company is going to want to put 32:45their fingerprint on it they're not 32:47going to build exactly what you are 32:49describing to them they're going to 32:51change it that's a good you know that's 32:54a good point Tony that's really a very 32:56good point your vision may not be 32:58exactly what they need for the market 33:00and that's fine as long as they're 33:03paying you free edition so you don't you 33:05know you don't mind if they change it 33:07they know in general most of them know 33:09what they're doing and you know 33:11are going to change it in a in a better 33:13way with licensing you do lose control 33:15sometimes that doesn't work out and they 33:18do you know they do lose their way or 33:21lose your vision and you know that that 33:24I mean that that's a little bit of the 33:26risk and licensing is your loss of 33:28control but that that's the name of the 33:31game they're going to do what they want 33:33to do they're going to change it so no 33:36sense and you spending ten thousand 33:38dollars on a prototype that they're 33:39going to dismiss and redo anyway yep 33:42center or a patent and then in most 33:45cases they may reap aten it anyway 33:46because they're going to make some 33:47changes the pattern thing is very very 33:49tough and that's that's also very 33:50industry dependent the fashion 33:55industry's and by fashion I don't mean 33:56clothes I mean toy industry's industries 34:00that have to make a new product line 34:02every year that's what I consider a 34:04fashion industry so they're driven by 34:07licensing licensing like from Disney or 34:09movies and things like that so you know 34:14it is the collectibles it's the it's the 34:16toys and clothing fashions they don't 34:20rely on patents they move too fast dude 34:22no point in fattening an idea like that 34:24for the fashion industry because they're 34:28not going to wait three years for a 34:29patent that's or is it that toy is in 34:31and out in two years so you know the 34:34it's all about speed to market for the 34:37fashion companies other companies you 34:40know the slower pace let's say tools 34:44things like that the patent becomes very 34:47important they're not going to talk to 34:48an inventor unless they have a patent 34:50there's a lot of companies that require 34:52that just as a filter um so so I do i do 34:57think the patent the patent is a lot of 35:01whether you need a patent or not is very 35:04industry specific Wow yeah I never 35:07really thought about that you're exactly 35:08right those fast moving products they're 35:11probably just using their name and 35:12copywriting it and saying hey just put 35:14it out there because they're going to 35:15sell so many of them and then and 35:17somebody else is going to knock them off 35:19in a year so I mean it really is all 35:21about speed to market so 35:22patent is is useless because it slows 35:26the process down that's all good 35:27information you see guys all you 35:29listeners out there this is the 35:30information you need before you take 35:32these steps you have to be informed 35:34taking that taking that wrong step could 35:37use up all your funds all your resources 35:38and it won't allow you to go to the 35:40right step and you Tony you've probably 35:42seen that where we're an inventor comes 35:44to you and they've already spent all 35:46their money in the wrong segment yeah 35:49shaymin or or you know what was an 35:51invention company that you know there 35:54really is not going to tell them that 35:55there's five ideas instead of the same 35:57behind them and they need to invested 35:59money yeah I've seen a lot of terrible 36:02investments and and that's one of the 36:04reasons I i do what i do is one of the 36:07reasons i try to offer this information 36:08is it's just I I'm not about taking 36:11money from people they don't the dart 36:13you know don't have a chance of success 36:15or that I know you know is the wrong 36:19direction from them is not this is not 36:21what we're about so I really want people 36:23to invest their money wisely I'd rather 36:26see him gonna try to license three 36:28different ideas and put a kind of money 36:30into a prototype of one idea and not be 36:32successful yeah yeah spending a little 36:35bit of money on those educate on the 36:36education can really go a long way there 36:38there's no doubt about it yeah you 36:40really should a if you're going to get 36:42into this business this is a business 36:43where you again as costly it's costly in 36:46time and money and an emotional expense 36:49you need to you need to do your homework 36:53and get an education and learn as much 36:55as you can before you before you go down 36:58that path yeah yeah there's no doubt 37:01about it and usually i ask a you know 37:04are our guests on you know can you give 37:07us 3 3 tips or three ideas but we've 37:10gone through so much information it it's 37:12well beyond the group but i do want to 37:16recommend to our listeners if they are 37:19looking for information if they're 37:21looking to test their idea to go on to 37:25Tony's website creative mechanisms all 37:27this information will be on our show 37:29notes on events has launched a website 37:30we're going to send it over to Tony also 37:32but he's on his series of education 37:36and I've seen a lot of educational 37:37systems out there hits it's really well 37:39done and you won't you will not regret 37:42going on to it and and just to get that 37:46so there's one thing I do want to talk 37:47to that Tony and I want to commend you 37:49on the work you've been doing with the 37:50polypropylene plastics I know you've 37:54gotten a lot of feedback on what you can 37:57do with those products especially that 37:59the living hinge stuff we can you go 38:02over and we only have a few minutes but 38:03you can go over how you how you came 38:05about that I mean it's pretty amazing 38:07I've seen some videos on what you doing 38:09that yeah it is the common area of 38:11expertise for us and it's kind of 38:14interesting always say we started the 38:17prototype business in the you know in 38:20the mid-80s so the always the most 38:22difficult thing to prototype is what is 38:25called a living hinge and that's if you 38:26picture your ketchup bottle it's one 38:29piece of plastic that has as a moving 38:32part so it's got a lid that opens up and 38:35that little web of plastic that holds 38:37the bottom to the top it's called a 38:40living edge it's it's it's all because 38:43it's one piece of plastic but yet it has 38:45a moving part so we call it the simplest 38:47mechanism but the most difficult to 38:49prototype so polypropylene is an 38:52extremely difficult material to machine 38:54I've been told for years that it's 38:57impossible machine you know you can't 38:59machine polypropylene you can't you can 39:01machine it well you can't make it good 39:03enough for a prototype those living 39:05hinges are down to ten thousandths of an 39:07inch they're very precise they need to 39:09do a lot of crucial geometry in there 39:11well basically was when we were doing a 39:16quite a bit of work in that area and 39:18coming up with new mechanisms a new 39:20person we developed a way to machine the 39:22polypropylene so it's really gathered 39:25the attention of a lot of big companies 39:27we love a lot of the work we do is is 39:31machining polypropylene living hinge 39:34caps and closures and it's just becoming 39:37an area of expertise that that really 39:40were we've gained international 39:42attention for yeah I mean from your 39:46prior when we were talking I know that 39:48you have client 39:49from all over the world which is amazing 39:51in itself but being able because that's 39:53what kind of brought me over to you when 39:55I heard that you were machining upon 39:56propylene I said no you can't do that 39:59and then I watch some of the videos and 40:01again your website is so nice it's so 40:03easy to to go through and a lots of the 40:06videos well it's amazing you cannot 40:09equipment that you have but the 40:10technology it's god I mean yeah I mean 40:13the equipment we have is really not you 40:16know there's no special there's no 40:18secret formula with that it really is 40:20technique and it's a capability that my 40:23guys took years to develop and and and 40:27and I mean we just get better at it 40:29every day so there's some really there's 40:31some really fun and interesting things 40:33and then you know you doing this a long 40:35time so and when something like that 40:37happens when there's a piece of magic 40:39and then all of a sudden now you've got 40:41you know some new great capability 40:44that's gathering a lot of tension it 40:46feels good after having done this for so 40:48long yeah yeah and and i agree i mean 40:50the good part about it is you you've 40:52been growing your knowledge or education 40:54but bringing the right people on a team 40:55it's so important also and you seem like 40:58you have such a great team around you 41:00being able to grow as you have and 41:02garner work from all over you know the 41:05globe is is just amazing yeah I I said 41:09this a long time this is the best game 41:11i've ever had these guys they 41:13communicate as one they're really they 41:15think they work is as such a unit of one 41:18it's amazing there's there's constant 41:21brain to brain storming back and forth 41:22they're always bouncing my ideas off of 41:25each other and and and you know 41:27typically engineers are a little 41:29hesitant to communicate sometimes this 41:32group truly is as figured out that that 41:35secret sauce and they they really work 41:37together very very well and that's how 41:39we're able to do some of this stuff 41:40awesome awesome so we're kind of at a 41:43time Tony I just wanted to kind of 41:45finish off I note one really and it's up 41:47to you have anyone who's listening that 41:49has some questions or anything contact 41:52you but is there someone they can reach 41:53out to whether it's you or there a way 41:55to get in touch you or should they just 41:56go on the website it should go on the 41:58website there's a lot of ways to 41:59communicate there's 42:00is you know a lot of forms that they can 42:02download and ask questions and whatnot 42:04that's really what i would encourage 42:05because you know if i don't get to it 42:09someone else on the team will so yeah I 42:11think ready to go on go on the website 42:13there's a great contact us section and 42:16you know yeah reach out no we can happy 42:19to talk to you yeah and I and I would 42:22recommend if anyone's listening has a 42:23question specifically in the invention 42:26any segment of it I mean obviously you 42:28can tell by x 22 experience and 42:30knowledge I'm sure that they will be 42:32able to help you and again I would 42:35recommend taking the classes there 42:36they're awesome so thank you very much 42:38Tony I really appreciate you taking the 42:40time today and I thank you for all the 42:43information hey it's been my pleasure 42:45I've enjoyed it very much thank you take 42:47care buddy but you too