Bonnie Sussman Strominger Inventor of the Revolutionary GoLidZ Package Innovation Shares Her Journey and Gives all Inventors Hope.

0:04hi everyone this is common disco and
0:07welcome to inventors launchpad roadman
0:11quick set i am your host for the day and
0:15today on the launchpad we have an
0:17inventor he has been known as an
0:20innovator
0:21he's a kickstarter success story and
0:24several kickstarter programs with great
0:26success
0:27he's a TED talk alumni run place called
0:31Wheaton labs out in Montana he's a great
0:34guy in the industry but he's also known
0:36as a bad boy of permaculture his name is
0:39paul wheaton and i have him on the line
0:41hey Paul you over there I'm here I'm
0:44here can you hear me I can hear you I
0:47can hear you over there thanks for being
0:49on the show I know you're out in Montana
0:52how's the weather up there it's a little
0:56cool today we got a little snow on the
0:57ground but we're getting into a winner
1:00should be no more snow for a growing
1:02season it's time to plant Wow it's crazy
1:07because I'm sitting here in 90-degree
1:09weather and it feels so weird to be
1:10talking to somebody that's telling me
1:12there's snow on the ground it's just
1:14it's just an a hostility my place is
1:19better so where are you if it's so this
1:22is 90 degrees where are you I am in
1:25sunny Clearwater Florida my man oh man I
1:28was the Florida ones I thought it was
1:31hard to breathe the air Vegas got water
1:33in your hair it is it is hard to breathe
1:35I mean it's too much sunshine it's
1:37actually clouding the sky from someone I
1:42know you're bitch I know you're pretty
1:43busy you got a lot of stuff going on I
1:45wanted to have you on the show there's
1:47so many things I want to talk about I
1:48mean I listen to your your your TED talk
1:51i watch your videos you have so many
1:53YouTube videos that give great now.wait
1:56experience I just not sure where to
1:59start let's I mean once you give us a
2:02little bit of background how you got
2:03started in this you you you you have so
2:05many things happening but what's going
2:06on right now that you're about
2:10I'm spending most of my days working on
2:13my Kickstarter I got a Kickstarter that
2:15I just came out with a few days ago I
2:16think we've got like five or six days
2:19left on the Kickstarter there's not much
2:20left time left and so when you you have
2:23a Kickstarter you got to work it every
2:24day so I'm spending every day I'm
2:27thinking of new ways to keep the
2:29Kickstarter going and it could happen
2:30I'm fortunate that uh for this
2:34particular project the the tech guys are
2:38taking care of most of the stuff and
2:40it's more about like being able to
2:42stream uh saying rather than putting the
2:46event on so we already had the event put
2:47together with like a superstar lineup of
2:50people talking about you know the things
2:52of my world
2:54and as just a matter of like can we
2:56bring it to thousands of more thousands
2:59more people you know it seems like
3:01you've had success with Kickstarter I
3:03went back and looked at some of the
3:05Kickstarter programs that you have and
3:07meaningless not not only a lot of
3:09funding being done but thousands of
3:12people are donating you know how are you
3:15doing how you getting to success a lot
3:17of people think oh I have a great
3:19product everyone thinks their crowd
3:20their product is that it you know is the
3:22is the next uh you know cure for cancer
3:27or whatever you want to call it and they
3:28just throw it up there thinking that
3:30people are just going to come and give
3:31them money and it doesn't work that way
3:33obviously so what you know what's kind
3:35of your secret to getting these
3:37Kickstarter programs fun well that you
3:40use the word donate I want to make it
3:42clear that I think Kickstarter is not a
3:44place to go in asking for donation
3:46people do try to do that and some people
3:49even succeed it's baffles me uh but
3:52Kickstarter's a pledges to be able to
3:55flip the bird to banks that's that's
3:58really what it's all about
4:01okay used to be is like I've got an idea
4:04for businesses so you're going to put on
4:06your kneepads go down to the bank and
4:09and you know grovel you're gonna do
4:11hours of groveling for money you know
4:14now now which students you say I've got
4:17a thing and I want to like make this
4:19thing but you know you've got to go to
4:22the thing Factory
4:24and it's like okay they want like a
4:27hundred grand but then in the end we
4:30have a lot of things see and so that
4:32does anybody want one of these and so
4:34then you know hopefully ten thousand
4:36people be like a lot of thing and and
4:39then you got enough money sometimes you
4:42go and you say I want a hundred thousand
4:44and they come back and they say here's
4:46five hundred thousand cuz you're cool
4:48and your thing is cool I want five you
4:53know like that so you asked me what's my
4:56secret now I think there's a lot of
4:58people on kicks are getting a lot more
5:00coin than I've ever managed to get and
5:02so I tend to get like a hundred thousand
5:04dollars each time I do a Kickstarter and
5:06if you look like I don't know like 90%
5:08of Kickstarter's they're never funded so
5:11oh and I and so I feel like okay I am
5:14good pretty I mean there's stuff that's
5:17doing a lot better but I am filling a
5:20niche and and the stuff that gets like
5:23millions of dollars I look at that a lot
5:25of that stuff and it's like I don't I
5:27don't understand that niche at all I I
5:30would I don't want that thing but
5:32apparently there's a lot of people to do
5:34and I just kind of feel like they're
5:35kind of Betty or son you know I don't
5:37understand it but for my world I would
5:41have to say this is going to sound kind
5:42of nuts how I'm having success is by
5:48helping other people for free I know
5:52that sounds weird and and but it's just
5:55give me give me half a tick and I'm
5:57going to try and explain in it so I've
5:58got people coming to me regularly that
6:00are like I've got a Kickstarter can you
6:01help me out and I look the first episode
6:08oh but half the time it's like that's a
6:11cool thing I like this saying I'm going
6:13to help you and so I do I help them out
6:15and I get I mentioned to my audience
6:17like I check out this guy stuff is cool
6:19and then there's other people that are
6:21like I'm trying to build a YouTube
6:23channel or I'm trying like I've got a
6:25blog I want people to find out about it
6:27and and stuff like that and it's like if
6:29I look at it let's think of school I try
6:31to help them out and so I do that a lot
6:34then the time comes that I do a
6:37Kickstarter
6:38I turn to those people and I say hey I'm
6:40doing the Kickstarter uh can you help me
6:43out and about one out of ten actually do
6:46they help they return the favor
6:48and the nine out of ten are like oh gee
6:50you know I'm busy and my father died
6:52again and I've got a you know and you
6:56know like or or your stuff is like not
6:59my knee so I can't tell my people
7:01because you know there's like well your
7:03stuff wasn't exactly my knees either but
7:05I told my people anyway because I
7:06thought it was good
7:07that doesn't matter the key is one out
7:10of ten will return the favor and so it's
7:14like okay so that I think that that's
7:16you say what's the secret I'm going to
7:18say that's that's probably a good 70
7:22percent of it right there Wow well well
7:24you know it doesn't sound crazy I mean
7:25when your help people and it seems like
7:27a lot of the things you do not only
7:29helping people helping the planet
7:31helping the earth and so so to me it
7:34doesn't sound crazy I think helping
7:36people you get back and if it's a small
7:39percentage I think one out of ten is
7:41actually a good number out of the
7:43hundreds of thousands of people that
7:44you're reaching out to probably yeah I I
7:48think so too and and I mean part of it
7:52is it's like when you're helping
7:53somebody out it feels good and and it's
7:56like okay I've got a lot of resources
7:58and part of it is it's like how do I get
7:59all these resources and it's because you
8:02were saying like you've you've been
8:03watching a lot of my videos okay those
8:07are on YouTube I just like a dollar
8:09figure attached to each video it's like
8:10you can watch them all you want uh and
8:12I've got like I think I've got like 370
8:15podcasts out there and I've got like I
8:18don't know how many articles and how
8:20many different things that I've written
8:21articles for free yeah I could we need a
8:25keynote speaker to sell tickets no uh
8:27you know can you be our keynote speaker
8:29it's like okay you paid for my airplane
8:31stuff I'll come and be your keynote
8:33speaker no charge have to get your whole
8:35event off the ground so it's like but
8:38the key is is like first to give a lot
8:41of stuff away and of course there is the
8:42possibility that everybody everybody in
8:45the world will vote no against you know
8:48all line up and say no dude
8:50you suck okay I could totally happen so
8:56so steal yourself for that it turns out
8:59I put my stuff out and and some people
9:02are like you know a lot of people turn
9:04their nose up in it for sure
9:05no doubt but there's a lot of people
9:07there like I'll I liked it this is
9:09pretty cool stuff I want some more so an
9:12audience kind of formed and so I've got
9:16this audience it's a it's great audience
9:18I like having it is and your your plan
9:21of doing it something that we talk to
9:23investors about here and I'm sure that
9:25you talk to you you have an inventors
9:27and innovators coming to you all the
9:28time because of your success and what we
9:30talk about is you don't want to try to
9:33talk to everyone in the world when we
9:35ask somebody who's your target audience
9:36because they haven't done the research
9:38they say everyone and between all of us
9:41we know we know that's not possible you
9:44know so so it's kind of good that you
9:46have found out who your target audience
9:48is it's much easier to talk to a
9:50specific group of people and to try to
9:53target everyone and that's what's so
9:55great I commend you on being able to do
9:57that and you've probably tried to steer
9:59people in that direction I think that
10:03it's like you got to think about the
10:04niche and granted while I love the idea
10:07of being able to command the thoughts of
10:09the entire population of the planet I
10:12also embrace the idea that that's really
10:14not going to happen I in fact I think
10:15that whenever I get the opportunity to
10:18stand behind or stand up on a stage and
10:20say things that there's going to be a
10:22lot of people that are going to be
10:23saying like this guy's nuts and I think
10:27it's a difference of knowledge set and
10:29and so I think in fact that's a big part
10:31of it I do want to have world domination
10:33I do want everybody in the world to
10:34think the thoughts I want them to sink
10:36granted it's cool to want things I also
10:38would like to have a lovely piece of pie
10:40and to win the lottery but so I mean I'm
10:43wanting things I can want world
10:45domination and it's like well how are
10:47you going to get there and I think part
10:49of it is is this like if you've got
10:51somebody who hates your guys chances are
10:53you probably don't think real well of
10:55them either but it's like okay I wanna I
10:57want I want to have mind control on them
11:00also so what is it going to take and
11:02it's like that the chasm
11:04the difference of knowledge set so what
11:06I need to do is to pick out some little
11:08tidbit of knowledge that I have and then
11:12somehow can decode it and then throw it
11:15out into the general direction maybe
11:17he'll pick it up and eat it and be like
11:19oh now I have this little bit of
11:21knowledge I thought that was all right
11:23it was quite tasty and then if I can
11:25throw a couple hundred his way after a
11:27while it's like he thinks I'm not so bad
11:30you know I'm not it's I'm not so
11:32horrible as he thought a moment ago and
11:34he doesn't seem so horrible to me
11:36anymore either and so this is this is
11:38you know mind control of the whole world
11:41yay team well it's working because I
11:45thought you were nuts at first and then
11:46I listened to yourself I said we is nuts
11:51but I love what you say so yeah
11:57invective maybe the more you listen the
11:59flavor of nuts changes like that before
12:02like that's a guy I want to know Floyd
12:04and then after a while it's more like
12:08not that I want to hang out with ya they
12:10like that flavor well the good part is
12:14is that again what you said you know
12:16you're found out with your gears you
12:17talk to those wolf and you do the right
12:20thing by helping or helping out the
12:22community in other in any way possible
12:25and I think when you do good you get
12:27back anything like you're looking to get
12:29back you're doing good not expecting
12:31things to come back and I think that's
12:34why you've had such great success I
12:36think the the theme of every moment of
12:41every day is make the best of it and you
12:45know there's gonna be tons of stuff it
12:46isn't good to go the way that you want
12:47but it's I mean you start off by wanting
12:50and what do I want how do I want to do
12:52this little there and then you know as
12:54far as the innovating stuff goes yeah
12:58I'm obsessed with a bunch of different
13:01ideas I've come to some conclusions that
13:03are very contrary to what public
13:06knowledge that is I have seen some
13:09amazing things I think at the top of the
13:13list it's like if I I would want to push
13:15the rocket mass heater I think
13:17that that thing is going to totally
13:19change the world I think I think half
13:20the population is going to have a rocket
13:22mass heater in ten years it's just a
13:25smart way to fly and so I've been
13:28working very hard in that space in order
13:29to be able to get that bit of knowledge
13:32in the more brains but so when it comes
13:35to innovations and things that most
13:37people don't know about I mean I'd say
13:39that that's that ones at the top of
13:40those well that's one of the things I
13:42was going to go into you you are a
13:44mentor you're are an innovator and most
13:47of the products or probably all of them
13:49have to do with with helping the
13:52environment I mean is that is that
13:53closer to the troop I'll go ahead and
13:58say yeah I think I think most people
14:01that are bonkers about the environment
14:03are kinda like oh okay
14:07step one to those monks robes that are
14:10super itchy and now lead a life of
14:13poverty and misery and that's how you do
14:16it and I kind of think no no no let's
14:18let's look at how to have a more
14:19luxurious life while at the same time
14:24because really when you're thinking
14:26about the environment and it's like I
14:28don't even need to say that it's like a
14:31lot of this is like dude you're you're
14:32pooping in your own drinking water here
14:34okay or or you're you're doing stuff
14:38that's like polluting the air not only
14:40for me but it's polluting your air too
14:42you know and so it's like I know that
14:46like I went to the Master Gardener
14:48training so I'm I'm actually a certified
14:50advanced Master Gardener and on on as
14:55part of the Master Gardener training
14:57what they do is they get you all trained
14:59up and then they set you loose and it's
15:01like you have to put in a certain number
15:03of hours and helping people with
15:05horticultural stuff and so my very first
15:09mission ever
15:10I was sent up to this place this guy was
15:12talking about like oh I'm sorry I'm late
15:14I was at the hospital my sister's got
15:16cans and in fact here we are looking at
15:19the bush I want to talk to you about
15:20right outside my sister's window I she
15:24loves this bush is so beautiful and
15:27unfortunately it's covered with aprons
15:29so the last four years I've been soaking
15:32it and diazinon like five times a year
15:34and it just doesn't seem to get rid of
15:35the agent and it's kind of like you you
15:38know it's just like seriously
15:40carcinogenic right
15:41so yeah and on top of that to get rid of
15:45aphids it's like it's not really a match
15:48that's really worked away it's like
15:50there's better stuff to get rid of
15:51aphids so ah all it is is this like a
15:56lot of it is somebody somewhere is
15:58making some money and they don't mind if
16:00your sister gets cancer where whereas I
16:03kinda feel like you know I could tell
16:05you a couple of things and it'll work
16:08when it will have much better results
16:09long term and your sister won't get
16:12cancer will be less likely to get cancer
16:15because who knows what else you're doing
16:16that's nuts so I kind of so am I am I an
16:20environmentalist
16:21I know that I've seen articles written
16:24about me and they called me hardcore
16:25green um I I don't I'm not I'm not sure
16:30I would say okay but I've met some
16:32people that call themselves
16:33environmentalists and I can tell you
16:35they're nuts and and so I'm not sure I
16:41there's probably if there's like a task
16:42to get into the club I probably would
16:44fail that test they'd probably say you
16:46love the CFL's right no no those are a
16:48nightmare man um so I don't know um I I
16:54do think that and I I'm very on on like
16:59if you ever seen those videos where they
17:00with the children that have cancer and
17:02you kind of like you know and then and
17:04then they're like in the hospital and
17:06I'm like seeing the stuff in the
17:07hospital I'm thinking like half that
17:09stuff that's in the hospital causes
17:11cancer like this stuff that they're
17:13sitting right there and the stuff
17:14they're feeding them I'm kind of
17:16thinking probably causes cancer you know
17:19what you need to do is you need to take
17:20away these are things that cause cancer
17:22so kids don't have cancer so I I don't
17:26know I know
17:27thanks a and it's frustrating but it's
17:32also awesome to be me yes it certainly
17:34is well you know the and it's not an
17:37issue but you know so much of you have
17:39seen so much that I seems like you know
17:41you get a conflict because you want to
17:43do good so much but there's so many
17:45people out there you you know helping
17:47everyone you just can't do it
17:48or you can do is do what is possible for
17:51you to do that's true I'm pretty
17:56overwhelmed
17:56fortunately like I said I have an
17:58audience and a lot of my audience loves
18:00me and I go out and I try to do things
18:06there are dozens of people that help
18:09every day I'd say right now there's
18:11probably 80 people that are at this
18:13moment doing something to try and help
18:15with my gobbledygook um we've got people
18:19that are physically here at my place
18:21we've got kind of a kind of a community
18:23here and they're they're working on
18:26different projects at this time and then
18:28there's people in the online world that
18:30are currently working on projects at
18:31this time no man there's a lot of stuff
18:34going on in my world
18:35yeah well you do again you're doing
18:36something right whenever you're getting
18:38people to help you you know you're doing
18:40something right which again is I commend
18:43you for for doing that stuff let's go
18:44back a little bit to your I know you've
18:46had several inventions several types of
18:48things tell us a little about a little
18:50bit about your other inventions or even
18:52a heater I'd like to hear you know
18:54what's happening with that or what's
18:55going on I would say 8% of my life is
18:58dedicated to the rocket mass heater
19:00stuff Wow
19:01and so in a nutshell if take a
19:04conventional wood stove you're going to
19:07have a metal box and there's a fire in
19:09and then the heat comes right at the
19:11metal box so then the fire end side is
19:14going to be like 900 to 1,200 degrees
19:16and then it's going to send a bunch of
19:18smoke up the chimney and it's going to
19:19exit the chimney at about 300 to 600
19:22degrees and and you know you see you can
19:24look at that you kind of think like okay
19:25a that's a lot of smoke there's a lot of
19:28wood there's a lot of fuel um and that's
19:31a lot of heat going right out the
19:32chimney I wish I add that heat inside
19:35warm in my toes instead um rocket mass
19:40heater instead uh puts the fire into an
19:43insulated box which then goes through an
19:45insulated thing and then you have a
19:46little short stubby chimney that it's
19:49insulated so then we're shooting for
19:52temperatures like 3,000 degrees well we
19:55did you think me Davin right now you got
19:58to keep in mind steel is liquid at 2600
20:01so if you see somebody saying this strut
20:04magic
20:07it looks like ok so I so now we're
20:11looking at materials that can tolerate
20:12such high temperatures but when it gives
20:14to that high temperature it burns all
20:16the smoke burns all the creosote and
20:17limits the danger much cleaner burn I
20:19mean this is basically what a
20:21crematorium does so we're going to take
20:24it to a much higher temperature burn it
20:27more completely and uh then we've got it
20:31moving in a very strong direction
20:33through convective occurrence and so we
20:36then take that extra heat and we push it
20:38through a mass we extract a whole bunch
20:40of the heat then we leak it out at about
20:4370 to 140 degrees is instead of that 300
20:48to 600 degrees of the other ones to do
20:49so what we have now is a way to heat
20:53your home with one-tenth the wood and
20:56now earlier I made the claim of like I
20:59think half the households in the United
21:00States will be doing this in ten years
21:02and so people are like well I'm using
21:04natural gas or I'm using electricity and
21:08it's kind of like there's an enormous
21:10amount of a pollution on the other side
21:12of that and it's like hey hey do you
21:15like eating fish like ever and you're
21:19like oh yeah but you know all that
21:20mercury where do you think it comes from
21:22it comes from all the mercury being you
21:25know all of our power plants putting
21:26that up into the atmosphere then it
21:28comes up you're thinking like oh I'm
21:29going to go catch fish in the most
21:31pristine wilderness and that way it
21:33won't have mercury and it's like nope
21:35it's there - yeah it's all toxic oh yeah
21:37like like 50 years ago you can go eat
21:40that not a problem but now it's kind of
21:42like this total poison and don't don't
21:44eat that so um you know don't we want to
21:49like fix that that we we like the idea
21:51of having poison on everything are with
21:54me somehow apparently we're cool with
21:56that we're okay with that but don't
21:58forget to wear your seatbelt you know we
22:00got a lot for that but cutting everybody
22:03and everything at poison that's that's
22:05like no big deal though don't knock Kurt
22:08whatever you do he's ugly dude okay so
22:13with the mass heater then uh the carbon
22:18footprint and I recognize not
22:20everybody's into
22:21carbon footprint day and it's like
22:22that's cool carbon footprint
22:24if you switch from electric heat to rock
22:27mass heater you have reduced your carbon
22:29footprint as much as parking seven cars
22:31now Elon Musk
22:34some people might call him he might like
22:36if Elon Musk was good at today I wanted
22:39to be on your show dude you'd be like
22:41yeah you oughta bust these guys this is
22:44it
22:45so I think I just whooped that guy by a
22:47factor of seven I'm sure you go buy a
22:50Tesla or you can get a rocket mass
22:52heater and do seven times more than what
22:54Elon Musk is and you don't have to spend
22:56$100,000 you know you could do this for
22:58like six hundred bucks okay so now I
23:02think I think on the other end of
23:05whatever is your current heat there's
23:07there's a disaster happening and you're
23:10pooping in your drinking water
23:12and so what I'm offering here with this
23:14is not only because it's like a lot of
23:17people you know that their heating bill
23:18not floor of course but up here their
23:22heating bill is like three thousand
23:24dollars a year and and it's like so now
23:28I'm going to set you up with something
23:30where you go out and collect the sticks
23:32that actually fall off the trees in your
23:34yard pile them up in your garage and
23:36that's what's going to heat your home
23:38all winter and and it's going to be you
23:42not only save $3,000 but it's also going
23:46to be like about 50 to maybe 60 times
23:49cleaner than your old heat source so
23:53good for the environment good for your
23:55pocketbook super easy I mean with $3,000
23:59that's a lot of pizzas what is it like
24:00300 pizzas no three people to everyday
24:05but you don't want to order the people
24:07you don't want to one of the pizza
24:09because they use a gas to drive to power
24:11going good well yeah but we're talking
24:14about a more luxurious life man and so
24:16it's kind of like you could make the
24:18pizza on your own but a lot of people
24:21prefer to like sit on their quiet watch
24:24Firefly and then the guy brings the
24:27pizza to your door I mean that's pretty
24:29sweet isn't it oh yeah yeah you know
24:31this the my brother my brother
24:34New York lives on a top of mountain he
24:36burns wood all year not all year but but
24:39most of the year because it's cold and
24:42and he goes through a lot of wood and
24:44and are you saying that the wood because
24:46it burns so clean because it burns so
24:48hot that it uses less wood I would think
24:50it would use more well okay remember
24:55like your brother to pick on your
24:58brother your brother ah
25:02would you believe this he puts a whole
25:06bunch of wood in there and it burns and
25:09then it's like 300 and 600 degrees going
25:11out the roof you know and it's like
25:15would you rather have all that heat
25:17inside your house now I'm in Montana and
25:22I'm in a three bedroom house right now
25:24where I'm sitting is what it looks like
25:25like the tree house over there we've got
25:28to go this over there we go to you I'll
25:30give you a tour later yeah most people
25:33in Montana during the house like this is
25:35going to be about six cords of wood for
25:37winter your brother he goes through
25:39twelve I'd have no idea what he actually
25:41goes through but what is 12 yeah and
25:45then so but if he lived in my house he
25:47probably would do six and and then last
25:52year we heated this house we had a
25:53particularly cold winter last year um
25:55and uh we used rocket mass heater in
25:59this house and we went through 0.6 cords
26:03of wood placer not even a quart of wood
26:07so one tenth the wood but the thing is
26:11is this like when you come on you put
26:13wood inside of a conventional with so if
26:15you're like you know you're going to put
26:17like this much wood in and then when I
26:19go to load up my master it would take
26:22more than like this much at a time and
26:25then it burns it super hot just crazy
26:29crazy hot now your your brother yeah
26:32that guy then then got all that smoke
26:36going on and out to Jimmy smoke is a
26:38fuel that stuff will burn and then this
26:43chimney is getting cake to create sir
26:46and it's like but
26:47that creosote that burns - it's also
26:50fuel now if your brother is not careful
26:52then and he doesn't clean his chimney
26:55frequently enough what could happen is
26:58is that that one day that creosote
27:01catches on fire and and then he'll he'll
27:05hear this rocket sent out this jet
27:07engine sound and that's the creosote and
27:11chimney burning and it's in some people
27:14that have a chimney fire what they do is
27:17they end up standing outside in the snow
27:20and their bare feet watching the house
27:21burn to the ground
27:22thinking like well that wasn't very
27:24convenient at all no and and so may be
27:29that those people would love to have a
27:30rocket mass heater where it burns the
27:32smoke and it burns the creosote to heat
27:35your home conveniently rather than
27:37burning Adair in can be didn't end
27:40safely oh yeah there's some safe stuff
27:43too
27:43yeah oh yeah I like that I hope keen but
27:47here's the third cool thing to your
27:49brother hot and I'm warden he gets up
27:55and then let's suppose that there's
27:57somebody else there and he's like hey
27:59hey go make a fire cuz it's cold cuz I
28:05didn't want to cuz I'll hold now if you
28:08got a rocket mass heater it holds the
28:10heat for like days after the fire and so
28:14in the morning you get it up it's firm
28:17it's still warm so the mass that gets
28:20heated up it's like you go after that
28:23after the fires that you're like aw jeez
28:24man it's so it's too warm in here now
28:26turn to you know stop beating that damn
28:28fire so you you know cork it and then
28:32you go when you touch the mass and it's
28:33like booth that's warm that's warm and
28:35then the mass continues to give off heat
28:39for days and so you go to bed and it's
28:42warm and you get up and it's warm and
28:46it's like there was no heater going and
28:50there was there was no nothing that was
28:52like there's not a furnace mouse there's
28:54nothing like that it's just as mass it
28:56just keeps giving off heat that keeps
28:57the whole house warm and toasty
29:00well it's uh it's pretty cool I'm gonna
29:02have to get one of these for him I'm not
29:04going to tell him about this it'll be a
29:05surprise though are you actually are you
29:08are these for sale are you still in
29:10testing mode or what's happening
29:12oh we're we've I mean about eight years
29:15ago they were considered like more like
29:1840 curring or for your garage or shop or
29:20something like that but they have come a
29:23long ways it's about five years ago we
29:26started I mean eight years ago some
29:28people were put them in their homes but
29:29you know we hadn't quite optimized the
29:31designs yet about five years ago they
29:35were getting to be rock-solid and a lot
29:37of people were putting them in their
29:38homes now hundreds of thousands of
29:41people put them in their arms but it's
29:43definitely a DIY thing and so we've got
29:46some DVDs that are kind of like a how-to
29:47there's an awesome book out right now
29:50that just came out last year they did a
29:52Kickstarter might help them with their
29:53Kickstarter uh and and so that books
29:56it's a rocket mass heater builders guide
29:58is now out so and they actually the the
30:02primary rocket mass heater of the book
30:04is one of the ones I have here oh very
30:07cool very cool stuff you know there's no
30:09doubt about especially something like
30:11that the way that you make those points
30:12you know there's you say to yourself
30:15there's really no negative negative
30:17sides to it it's just getting it putting
30:19it in and you know using that little you
30:23know you know half a quart of wood
30:25compared to six or ten cords of wood I
30:28mean that's that's something argue a
30:30point right there yeah I think that I
30:33think that it's so profound that's why
30:35I'm saying like in ten years I think
30:36half the people in the United States
30:37will will have one of these the benefits
30:41are profound and people are doing it and
30:43every it used to be like when we were
30:45first talking about it or when I was
30:47first talking about it eight nine years
30:49ago then everyone so had kind of so it's
30:51like that's impossible that can't be so
30:53it's like and part of it is is like if
30:56you go to buy like a wood stove you know
30:58like your brothers yeah then it came
31:01with a little tag it said this is 75%
31:04efficient and and then I'm saying like
31:07you're going to heat on with 1/10 the
31:09wood of whatever your brother's using
31:10and people are like that's a violation
31:13of
31:13mathematics and the rule of what 100%
31:16means and and I'm digging like men you
31:19don't know what marketing is do you
31:21there's a set of 75% you believed it's
31:25because you believed a lie doesn't mean
31:27I I'm compelled to abide by that
31:31so basically you can buy only a 75%
31:34efficient wood stoves most people
31:35operate in it probably about seven
31:37percent efficiency that gives us a lot
31:39of room to play with so how did I get
31:42there how to get that number
31:44seventy-five percent efficient is is it
31:46is a comedy it's not really in a
31:49controlled environment five by five room
31:54sixteen percent is allowed to go up the
31:57chimney yeah you know and and then it's
31:59like yeah controlled environment what
32:02happens we turn the air pressure in the
32:04room up you know that is basically
32:05blowing on the fire yeah thank God thank
32:08us and the thing is is that if I don't
32:11give you if your stove manufacturer and
32:13I don't give you a good number from my
32:14laboratory you'll go to the laboratory
32:16next door will give you better numbers
32:18so I better you know find a way to get
32:21you the best number so I'm going to test
32:22it over and over and over again I'm
32:24going to give you valid numbers but the
32:25government allows certain things and
32:27it's like now is is are you cute are is
32:32the standard homeowner for the common
32:34homeowner are they going to like do all
32:35the tricks that were done in the lab no
32:37no and so then they're going to like do
32:41things like try to stoke the fire with a
32:43giant log at night so that it keeps
32:45putting out heat all night long but
32:47they're gonna turn the dampers way down
32:48and it's like look at that I took that
32:50seventy five percent efficient woods
32:52though I got it down to two point eight
32:54percent efficiency damn I'm good so some
32:59of the stuff that you're talking about
33:00is it's pretty scary what's out there I
33:02I told her you creepy and and then it
33:05makes a whole bunch of smoke for the
33:07whole neighborhood and you get these of
33:09these communities where it's like they
33:11start banning wood stoves because of
33:13that and and it for very good reason
33:16and it's like whereas a rocket mass
33:18heater is designed so that you can't
33:20operate it inefficiently there's just
33:23not a way to do it so and and then which
33:27case it does
33:27the complete burn and now it's not
33:29polluting wow it's no it's great
33:32information and I and I can't wait to
33:33see it taking more of a mainstream
33:36product it's it's really it's real and I
33:39like you said it's catching on now but I
33:40agree with this type of environment and
33:43the efficiency it has to catch on it
33:46really does so I want to so I want to
33:49kind of Vung you change change up a
33:52little bit and just so people would know
33:55all the other things that you've done I
33:57know you have a website out there called
34:00with does Java coding is it something
34:03with you found out about my other secret
34:06life damn you're good
34:08oh yeah it is a job do it what's the
34:12name of the site Java coding so we've
34:14got a code ranch and Java ranch robbery
34:17dal I think a lot of people are going to
34:19remember Java ranch when they are in
34:20college and Java ranch got them through
34:23that class you know and now we renamed
34:26to the code ranch return I move in a
34:28direction of embracing more languages
34:30besides just Java yeah yeah I've got
34:33this whole software engineering history
34:35before I got bonkers about permaculture
34:39and like just started going down this
34:41path so much and you know that that's
34:43that's something that even you jumped
34:45right into it that's why I would say
34:46that the being is so much to cover up
34:47yeah can you give us a quick you know
34:49maybe a definition of what you mean by
34:51permaculture I mean a lot of people
34:53probably haven't heard that word so
34:55there's a lot of different ways to
34:57express it I think each time you talk to
34:58a permaculture guy if I get a different
35:00you know bumper sticker
35:03mine is permaculture is a more symbiotic
35:06relationship with nature so I can be
35:08even lazier yeah I'm going to do things
35:14that are more aligned with nature so I
35:17I've got some pretty powerful series on
35:20how to grow food I then of course you
35:23know the rocket mass heater stuff and I
35:26think a lot of this stuff is like you
35:29know gisli like with a rocket mass
35:31heater there's ways that fire works
35:34there's ways that heat works and um hey
35:38I've talked to other engineers
35:41that I specialize in the world of
35:44heating a building and it's like they
35:48they are locked into convective heat
35:51they they have a totally abandoned any
35:54thought like they've forgotten it from
35:56college uh any any concept of conductive
36:00heat or radiant heat they don't even
36:03think about when they're heating a
36:04building it's all convective and
36:07convective is the least efficient form
36:10of heat and now I realize I can't even
36:13remember what your question was I've
36:15gone up and I'm getting my blood up Dan
36:20engineers think they know everything
36:22don't even remember to three kinds of
36:25heat no I was I was asking about light
36:28bulbs no I'm just kidding only one guess
36:30oh not just plotted on lights off we'll
36:33save that to later no no I was just want
36:38a lot of people never hear the term
36:40permaculture and I just wasn't sure if
36:42it was something specific but it seems
36:44like it says more it's a more larger
36:47type of culture right I mean it started
36:51out so there's this dude Bill Mollison
36:53back in the 70s and he came up with it
36:56and it was supposed to be permanent
36:58agriculture but he changed it later to
37:00be permanent culture to take him a lot
37:01more stuff and and in time it grew to
37:05embrace a lot of different ideas and I
37:08first heard the word in 2001 and at the
37:11time I had 80 acres and I called what I
37:15was doing a full farm ecosystem or
37:17systems feed systems feed system and the
37:20word permaculture is much shorter than
37:21that and I I really kind of liked a lot
37:26of what it embraced and so when when I
37:29was doing my thing in my farm a guy
37:31comes by and I'm pointing out what I'm
37:32doing and he says oh you're doing
37:34permaculture and I'm like I've never
37:35heard that word before so then I start
37:37opening up all these books about
37:38permaculture and it's like I thought I
37:40invented all this stuff and then there's
37:44a whole bunch of stuff I never thought
37:45of they were like do you seem like
37:47really good ideas and so I showed up a
37:50little late to the party but I love this
37:52stuff and I you know immediately drank
37:54the kool-aid
37:55and I've been into it ever since and
37:57somehow I'm so bonkers about it my yak
38:00about it so much tonight I take the
38:03videos but make the podcast all that
38:05stuff somehow I've got I've earned some
38:08rank or something in this community I
38:10got this lovely thing see that over
38:12there
38:13Thanks yeah that's sort of there's a
38:16death from a guy that I admired I
38:19thought he was the king of permaculture
38:21um and and he gave me that as a very
38:26happy very happy
38:27so another guy who is kind of like you
38:30know in charge of permaculture he's the
38:32one who called me the Duke I called him
38:35the Crown Prince because at the time
38:36Bill Mollison he is a guy named made up
38:40the word and then this guy was the guy
38:42was talking to Geoff Lawton he's the
38:44chosen one so I said okay you're the
38:46crown prince and so I got a question for
38:47it and that's Ben he called me to do
38:50it's like oh dude you should ever said
38:51that cuz I want to put that on all my
38:52stationery mega yeah well you know it's
38:56so great about what you're doing and
38:58people that you're naming and and and
39:00the rest of the people in the
39:01permaculture we're the types of farming
39:04is that I don't think the general public
39:05realizes how much innovation how much
39:08invention how much science comes out of
39:11growing food and and trying to grow it
39:13now their correct way it just seems like
39:15it's a it's a growing trend but it seems
39:18so hard because of these big companies
39:20that are out there well I I think that
39:24you know there are some big companies
39:25they've got a certain process and
39:27there's I mean that we could talk about
39:29that for seven or eight hours you know
39:31what they're doing and why and they're
39:34lovely people and it's like they're just
39:36not aware of the alter to this and then
39:40in the permaculture community itself is
39:41like when you get bitten by the bug and
39:43you're like I'm going to do this I love
39:45doing this it's more like instead of
39:48like I'm going to do 20,000 acres of it
39:50it's more like I'm going to do four
39:53acres of it and I'm going to feed myself
39:56and feed my family I'm going to share
39:58some of my friends and neighbors and
40:00maybe I'll sell a little bit what I'm
40:02all done so it's like it doesn't fit
40:04into the commodities market but on top
40:08of that it's kind of like
40:09you know we were talking earlier about
40:10cancer and you're saying my call some of
40:12these guys believe they have the cure
40:13for cancer guess what I believe I have
40:16you know as I go it's a different way of
40:20doing it but it will scale you can scale
40:23it to do the commodity system but the
40:26thing is is that most of people that get
40:28into this they started enjoying it and
40:30grooving on it they feel like they've
40:32found their life's mission and then
40:34they're like oh I don't want to play
40:36your stupid commodities game I'm not
40:38into it I don't I used to be they used
40:41to be my job and you know there are a
40:44lot of icky people out there at my old
40:46job and I'm glad I don't do that anymore
40:48I like what I'm doing now and I don't
40:51want to play your game and so so part of
40:57this is kind of like okay how can we
40:58come up with a way to be able to get
41:02this food of a higher quality you know
41:06we're organic is stupid or or tannic
41:09really that is so lame how do we get it
41:13to the masses and it's like yeah that's
41:16that's a that's a challenge because once
41:19you start traveling as fast that's kind
41:20of you kind of don't want to just sell
41:23it to those people it's kind of like you
41:25get to a point where you have everything
41:30you want need and and it's like somebody
41:33gives they'll give you million dollars
41:34is like what would I spend it on well I
41:37I kind of you know so you kind of give
41:39this place where man I'm good thanks oh
41:43yeah well I'm kind of with you I am and
41:47it's funny you say about the organic I
41:49totally agree that the food is a base of
41:52everything it's so important to eat
41:54right as good as you possibly can and it
41:58I say I believe that it's the base of
41:59everything I really do but it's funny
42:02that you mentioned the organic side
42:03because really it's hard to have real
42:07organic food right I mean I mean where
42:08the cria come from I mean it can't be
42:11purely organic from all right oh there's
42:14laws saying I mean there was a there was
42:16a great YouTube video about five years
42:18ago where this little girl tried to take
42:21the sweet potato
42:22and stick the little toothpicks in it
42:24and put it in the water and then the
42:25growers come up and and then she's like
42:28okay I follow the directions
42:30I put the toothpicks in I put it the
42:32water and nothing happened and and then
42:35so then somebody said us because they
42:37spray it but this stuff to keep it from
42:40sprouting because nobody likes buying
42:42sprouting sweet potatoes and so you got
42:45to get organics she goes and she gets an
42:47organic one and sticks the toothpicks in
42:49it and it kind of goes e and it's like
42:53so it had this little bit of sprouty
42:55bits and she's kind of like oh that
42:58wasn't what I thought it would be and
42:59they're like oh no no see with the
43:01organic stuff they still hose it down
43:03with the toxic kick to keep it from
43:05sprouting because people were into
43:07organic even they don't want to buy the
43:09stuff for the spatty bits and the
43:10government said oh go ahead and soak it
43:13in toxic kick that's okay
43:15and so then he's like okay you got to go
43:17down to the farmers market and talk to
43:19speeds because he doesn't know what that
43:23toxic kick is he's never heard of it he
43:25just grows sweet potatoes so then she
43:27gets one from Steve puts the toothpicks
43:30in it puts in order sue huge plant whoa
43:33what the hell that's that little little
43:38what nine-year-old girls YouTube video
43:40and she's like she's like naming off the
43:43chemical but she can't pronounce it
43:45because yeah it's you know something
43:47awesome Wow
43:49so it's amazing I'm glad that the
43:51younger you know there are people in the
43:53younger generation that are noting
43:54noticing these things and I read it
43:56about all the time that they are trying
43:58different things and and trying to do
44:00good it is amazing with the younger
44:03generation how they are starting to
44:04notice it I think that a big part of it
44:07is is like I think anybody would pay
44:09more attention to this kind of stuff if
44:11people were allowed to consider when
44:14they have cancer where it came from and
44:16because right now I think most most
44:19everybody in the world thinks that
44:20cancer comes from the cancer fairy the
44:23cancer fairy comes along and goes and
44:24goes ding you've got cancer ah you win
44:29and then floats around to the next
44:31person woo woo ding you got cancer
44:36like and that's where that's where
44:37cancer comes from see now I'm nuts I'm
44:41just I'm so crazy and so stupid I
44:45believe that cancer might a theory I'm
44:49sure I'm wrong might come from
44:52carcinogens both the kind that we know
44:55about and the kind that we don't know
44:56about but that's just me and I'm told
44:58I'm crazy so I don't know yeah yeah well
45:02you are crazy it doesn't mean you don't
45:03know what you're talking about you're
45:04allowed to be crazy I think if you're
45:06going to be an innovator you kind of
45:07have to be crazy we're all crazy in some
45:09way and you know just just going back to
45:12show how crazy you are you had told me
45:14earlier did some work on on some kind of
45:17space equipment or satellite stuff right
45:19really said my background before getting
45:24bonkers about permaculture was largely
45:26in software engineering and so I did
45:28work in aerospace for a while I am one
45:30of the primary architects for the ground
45:32systems for the spacecraft that takes
45:33pictures for Google Earth and in fact I
45:37wrote a predecessor to Google Earth in
45:401999 Wow only mine on mine you could
45:44task the satellite to take new pictures
45:47now you're talking see I know that
45:50that's what you would do so they didn't
45:57like that well yeah they made this
46:00consumer version like we'll keep this
46:02one in house all right we'll keep this
46:05in house and then we'll make people pay
46:07money for us to take pictures for them
46:09and the one that we showed everybody
46:11else is like you know got that part
46:13disabled yes
46:15that's what good stew chicken man
46:17whatevs amazing just amazing stuff
46:20you've done so much so with some
46:21expectrum of of things and as I said
46:23before you came on to Cheryl I just
46:25started doing some background in it I've
46:27just amazed that not only the way that
46:29you present the information you make it
46:31fun to learn and yeah you act you know
46:34crazy whatever but people love crazy
46:36they get that they want to have
46:37entertainment while they're learning and
46:39I think that's why a lot of the items
46:42that I watched I kept watching because
46:43we're not plating you got hooked I've
46:47heard the people that are like okay dude
46:49I hate you
46:49because I haven't gotten any sleep for
46:52three days because I've been watching
46:53your videos you know they just got
46:55started as I couldn't stop yeah so the
46:59thing about that is that you know what
47:02today's instant knowledge and
47:04information is that a lot of people know
47:06when you're feeding them crap you know
47:09and I don't think you're doing that
47:11you're giving information that is
47:12readily available you're you're
47:14condensing it into knowledge that you're
47:17giving out it within that condensed form
47:19and I think that's what's so great about
47:20being able to watch a YouTube video that
47:22you did and learn a lot and well it's
47:26not you know it's you're not
47:27contradicting anyone you're not you know
47:29calling anybody names or doing it you're
47:32just giving the facts and I think that's
47:33awesome
47:34I'm trying to share stuff that I've
47:35found that or I've discovered or you
47:38know I like I saw a saying or whatever
47:40but at the same time a lot of the stuff
47:42I'm sharing information about people if
47:45it's like so very different from what
47:48they're used to then they're having a
47:50hard time with it it's like that they're
47:53mean like rocket mass heater I mean I
47:56can heat your home with one tenth the
47:58wood what people people they had to wait
48:01until I've heard that from like 15
48:02different people before they can begin
48:04to believe it
48:05I mean you think about of the iPod
48:07people probably would never have done
48:10the iPod if it didn't come with a 200
48:11million dollar advertising campaign I
48:14don't have two hundred million dollars I
48:16don't even know how to make an
48:17advertising campaign for two hundred
48:19billion dollars so it's like all I can
48:22do is say look here's a compost pile we
48:24coiled some pipe in it and now we've got
48:26hot water for two months you know and
48:28and it's like got all the all the hot
48:31showers you want didn't didn't cuss in
48:32the energy you know it's like I said
48:34pretty cool but it's like people to come
48:37like what oh I can't be right if that
48:39was right like every other house would
48:43be doing that right and and then it I
48:46kind of think it'd be kind of cool to
48:47come up with something where you kind of
48:50throw in some wood chips
48:52you throw in your compost stuff from the
48:54kitchen and whatever you keep throwing
48:57that in there and even go out there pee
48:58on it once in a while and that's all
49:00your hot water you know it's like the
49:03hot water for that like every other
49:05house has something like that it's just
49:07yeah just this is where all the urine
49:09goes you know I was over here with all
49:12these woodchips and it breaks down and
49:14gets super hot way better I mean like
49:17right now I could I could spend four
49:19hours talking about sewage treatment
49:21plants and what they do and it's like
49:24but you know and it's like that's the
49:25best we've been able to come up with so
49:27far and it's like it's like god I've got
49:29a bunch of stuff that's way better in
49:31that space too we've got some problems
49:34where there's this thing going on now
49:35about peak phosphorus we keep mining
49:38phosphorus and using it for fertilizer
49:40and then we put it into people and it
49:43comes out of people and then it goes to
49:45the ocean and it's kind of like at some
49:47point in time we're going to be like man
49:49I sure wish we didn't send all that to
49:51the ocean because now we're kind of out
49:53and we kind of need that back you can't
49:56really you know bring it back not to
49:59mention the fact that when we mixed it
50:01we took to the sewage treatment plant we
50:02mixed it up with all the industrial
50:05waste from all these of their companies
50:07and then there's all the pills people
50:09make we mixed it up with that and now
50:12it's like not real useful because it got
50:15all mixed together and then we send it
50:18down to the river the ocean and I want
50:21to go down there I don't on there hey
50:26Paul listen man we're going to have to
50:28start wrapping up I do want to ask you
50:31to let the listeners know ways in which
50:35they can watch your information and also
50:37maybe contact you if they had some
50:38questions I have had so many thousands
50:42of people need to contact me I about ten
50:44years ago created forums you know just
50:46like the forum's over at Java ranch and
50:48code Ranch
50:49now there's forms that permease calm and
50:51the great thing I love is people go out
50:53there and they ask a question and then
50:56I'll go up by the time I get to it some
50:58they'll be like seven other responses
51:00saying Paul would say and and it's like
51:04oh man I don't to say it that's sweet
51:07easy so but we we do want to make sure
51:11that everybody who has a question gets
51:15an awesome answer within 40
51:17eight hours we're very passionate about
51:19that so we've got all kinds of subsidy
51:24its RM I get that and I do my personal a
51:31cop Roth permaculture stuff but then and
51:34uh and of course code ranch comm you
51:38mentioned yeah way to go thank you
51:40and the DVDs for avid DVDs for rocket
51:45mass heater zan DVDs for world
51:47domination gardening and and those are
51:51going to be out of the rich soil site
51:52wow it's great and also um you know any
51:55of you listeners want to help out Paul
51:57with any of his Kickstarter programs go
51:59ahead out the Kickstarter take a look
52:00what he's got going on he's always got
52:02something going on and again it's it's
52:04something made to really help people
52:06move forward permaculture which is if
52:09you never heard of that word I'm glad
52:10that he gave us the information on what
52:12it means and I think you're doing some
52:14great stuff out there and I would love
52:16to invite you back on the show give us
52:19an update on what you have going on and
52:21also how to Kickstarter program to do it
52:22all right
52:23I'd love to come back on the Kickstarter
52:25the big thing we're doing is we're doing
52:28that four weeks of classes we're about
52:30to start like we're just a week and a
52:32half away from starting and the
52:34Kickstarter is about like you can get
52:36the two hundred and twenty hours of this
52:38stuff as video that's what the kickstart
52:41reward it's like for 100 bucks and and I
52:44don't know if people are interested in
52:46these these kinds of things we're going
52:48to in four weeks we're going to cover so
52:49much detail it's a it's an official
52:52permaculture design course that's two
52:55weeks and then two weeks of an
52:56appropriate technology course and so
53:00we're gonna do so for four weeks of
53:04stuff I'm 220 hours why it's exciting
53:08it's exciting and again I I hope that
53:10people are interested in it they would
53:12definitely definitely benefit from
53:15getting the information I think it would
53:16be awesome and again I appreciate you
53:18coming on the show today I know you have
53:19a lot going on yeah your time is limited
53:21but you know between myself and our
53:24listeners I am super glad you gave us
53:26some time today
53:28thank you sir thank you very much my
53:31friend you take care you chill man
53:34looking for the next time oh yeah it'll
53:37be soon take care buddy