Bonnie Sussman Strominger Inventor of the Revolutionary GoLidZ Package Innovation Shares Her Journey and Gives all Inventors Hope.

Paul Wheaton, The Bad Boy of Permaculture Talks and Teaches His Innovative Secrets to Success.
May 19, 2017
Bob Greenstone
Inventors, Bob Greenstone Knows How to Get Your Product on TV
June 14, 2017

Solving the powerful daily consumer problem & market demand for On-the-Go food & beverage convenience & portability. Game changing for foodservice operators; #QSR's#Drivethrus #FastCasual #CPG #CStores #Grocery #Superstores #Theatres #Ballparks #Stadiums #Airports #Theme Parks #Tailgating #Offices #Universities

GoLidZ replace any standard foodservice beverage cup lid, with LidZ that hold food, creating all in one handheld solutions.

Portable, resealable, recyclable, lightweight, disposable, ship and nest flat for storage...ease of consumption anytime & anywhere. GoLidZ fit in all cup holders! Made in USA from recycled FDA approved material.

Revolutionary packaging category, changing how we consume food & beverage on the go. Solutions that drive revenue & profits, while delighting consumers with lifestyle convenience, during and beyond POS. A one of a kind, sustainable bundling method to heighten brand awareness & forge an emotional connection.

Strategically targeting snacks & small meals, GoLidZ will bolster core categories across all channels. Long overdue change for take out, delivery & drive thru, that consumers will value daily. "Dashboard Dining"​ now has a whole new experience brand loyalists will value and socially share.

Profit generating marketing vehicles & incremental traffic drivers, elevating decline fountain trends, incidence, and check average. Maintaining brand relevance via innovation, to gain competitive edge.

Founding team; top level executives from food & beverage brand icons. Expert collaboration ensures successful execution of our business model. Tremendous scale, channel expansion, multiple designs for cold, hot & beer applications.

After years of R&D, we've unveiled our disruptive packaging technology.

GoLidZ raises the question; "How did I ever live without this?"​

Multiple Utility/Design Patents issued

Registered Trademark

Watch the podcast here!

Podcast Notes

1You Tube generated podcast notes, please excuse any typos.
0:04hi everyone this is common disco and
0:07welcome to inventors launchpad roadman
0:11quick set i am your host for the day and
0:15today on the launchpad we have an
0:17inventor he has been known as an
0:21he's a kickstarter success story and
0:24several kickstarter programs with great
0:27he's a TED talk alumni run place called
0:31Wheaton labs out in Montana he's a great
0:34guy in the industry but he's also known
0:36as a bad boy of permaculture his name is
0:39paul wheaton and i have him on the line
0:41hey Paul you over there I'm here I'm
0:44here can you hear me I can hear you I
0:47can hear you over there thanks for being
0:49on the show I know you're out in Montana
0:52how's the weather up there it's a little
0:56cool today we got a little snow on the
0:57ground but we're getting into a winner
1:00should be no more snow for a growing
1:02season it's time to plant Wow it's crazy
1:07because I'm sitting here in 90-degree
1:09weather and it feels so weird to be
1:10talking to somebody that's telling me
1:12there's snow on the ground it's just
1:14it's just an a hostility my place is
1:19better so where are you if it's so this
1:22is 90 degrees where are you I am in
1:25sunny Clearwater Florida my man oh man I
1:28was the Florida ones I thought it was
1:31hard to breathe the air Vegas got water
1:33in your hair it is it is hard to breathe
1:35I mean it's too much sunshine it's
1:37actually clouding the sky from someone I
1:42know you're bitch I know you're pretty
1:43busy you got a lot of stuff going on I
1:45wanted to have you on the show there's
1:47so many things I want to talk about I
1:48mean I listen to your your your TED talk
1:51i watch your videos you have so many
1:53YouTube videos that give great now.wait
1:56experience I just not sure where to
1:59start let's I mean once you give us a
2:02little bit of background how you got
2:03started in this you you you you have so
2:05many things happening but what's going
2:06on right now that you're about
2:10I'm spending most of my days working on
2:13my Kickstarter I got a Kickstarter that
2:15I just came out with a few days ago I
2:16think we've got like five or six days
2:19left on the Kickstarter there's not much
2:20left time left and so when you you have
2:23a Kickstarter you got to work it every
2:24day so I'm spending every day I'm
2:27thinking of new ways to keep the
2:29Kickstarter going and it could happen
2:30I'm fortunate that uh for this
2:34particular project the the tech guys are
2:38taking care of most of the stuff and
2:40it's more about like being able to
2:42stream uh saying rather than putting the
2:46event on so we already had the event put
2:47together with like a superstar lineup of
2:50people talking about you know the things
2:52of my world
2:54and as just a matter of like can we
2:56bring it to thousands of more thousands
2:59more people you know it seems like
3:01you've had success with Kickstarter I
3:03went back and looked at some of the
3:05Kickstarter programs that you have and
3:07meaningless not not only a lot of
3:09funding being done but thousands of
3:12people are donating you know how are you
3:15doing how you getting to success a lot
3:17of people think oh I have a great
3:19product everyone thinks their crowd
3:20their product is that it you know is the
3:22is the next uh you know cure for cancer
3:27or whatever you want to call it and they
3:28just throw it up there thinking that
3:30people are just going to come and give
3:31them money and it doesn't work that way
3:33obviously so what you know what's kind
3:35of your secret to getting these
3:37Kickstarter programs fun well that you
3:40use the word donate I want to make it
3:42clear that I think Kickstarter is not a
3:44place to go in asking for donation
3:46people do try to do that and some people
3:49even succeed it's baffles me uh but
3:52Kickstarter's a pledges to be able to
3:55flip the bird to banks that's that's
3:58really what it's all about
4:01okay used to be is like I've got an idea
4:04for businesses so you're going to put on
4:06your kneepads go down to the bank and
4:09and you know grovel you're gonna do
4:11hours of groveling for money you know
4:14now now which students you say I've got
4:17a thing and I want to like make this
4:19thing but you know you've got to go to
4:22the thing Factory
4:24and it's like okay they want like a
4:27hundred grand but then in the end we
4:30have a lot of things see and so that
4:32does anybody want one of these and so
4:34then you know hopefully ten thousand
4:36people be like a lot of thing and and
4:39then you got enough money sometimes you
4:42go and you say I want a hundred thousand
4:44and they come back and they say here's
4:46five hundred thousand cuz you're cool
4:48and your thing is cool I want five you
4:53know like that so you asked me what's my
4:56secret now I think there's a lot of
4:58people on kicks are getting a lot more
5:00coin than I've ever managed to get and
5:02so I tend to get like a hundred thousand
5:04dollars each time I do a Kickstarter and
5:06if you look like I don't know like 90%
5:08of Kickstarter's they're never funded so
5:11oh and I and so I feel like okay I am
5:14good pretty I mean there's stuff that's
5:17doing a lot better but I am filling a
5:20niche and and the stuff that gets like
5:23millions of dollars I look at that a lot
5:25of that stuff and it's like I don't I
5:27don't understand that niche at all I I
5:30would I don't want that thing but
5:32apparently there's a lot of people to do
5:34and I just kind of feel like they're
5:35kind of Betty or son you know I don't
5:37understand it but for my world I would
5:41have to say this is going to sound kind
5:42of nuts how I'm having success is by
5:48helping other people for free I know
5:52that sounds weird and and but it's just
5:55give me give me half a tick and I'm
5:57going to try and explain in it so I've
5:58got people coming to me regularly that
6:00are like I've got a Kickstarter can you
6:01help me out and I look the first episode
6:08oh but half the time it's like that's a
6:11cool thing I like this saying I'm going
6:13to help you and so I do I help them out
6:15and I get I mentioned to my audience
6:17like I check out this guy stuff is cool
6:19and then there's other people that are
6:21like I'm trying to build a YouTube
6:23channel or I'm trying like I've got a
6:25blog I want people to find out about it
6:27and and stuff like that and it's like if
6:29I look at it let's think of school I try
6:31to help them out and so I do that a lot
6:34then the time comes that I do a
6:38I turn to those people and I say hey I'm
6:40doing the Kickstarter uh can you help me
6:43out and about one out of ten actually do
6:46they help they return the favor
6:48and the nine out of ten are like oh gee
6:50you know I'm busy and my father died
6:52again and I've got a you know and you
6:56know like or or your stuff is like not
6:59my knee so I can't tell my people
7:01because you know there's like well your
7:03stuff wasn't exactly my knees either but
7:05I told my people anyway because I
7:06thought it was good
7:07that doesn't matter the key is one out
7:10of ten will return the favor and so it's
7:14like okay so that I think that that's
7:16you say what's the secret I'm going to
7:18say that's that's probably a good 70
7:22percent of it right there Wow well well
7:24you know it doesn't sound crazy I mean
7:25when your help people and it seems like
7:27a lot of the things you do not only
7:29helping people helping the planet
7:31helping the earth and so so to me it
7:34doesn't sound crazy I think helping
7:36people you get back and if it's a small
7:39percentage I think one out of ten is
7:41actually a good number out of the
7:43hundreds of thousands of people that
7:44you're reaching out to probably yeah I I
7:48think so too and and I mean part of it
7:52is it's like when you're helping
7:53somebody out it feels good and and it's
7:56like okay I've got a lot of resources
7:58and part of it is it's like how do I get
7:59all these resources and it's because you
8:02were saying like you've you've been
8:03watching a lot of my videos okay those
8:07are on YouTube I just like a dollar
8:09figure attached to each video it's like
8:10you can watch them all you want uh and
8:12I've got like I think I've got like 370
8:15podcasts out there and I've got like I
8:18don't know how many articles and how
8:20many different things that I've written
8:21articles for free yeah I could we need a
8:25keynote speaker to sell tickets no uh
8:27you know can you be our keynote speaker
8:29it's like okay you paid for my airplane
8:31stuff I'll come and be your keynote
8:33speaker no charge have to get your whole
8:35event off the ground so it's like but
8:38the key is is like first to give a lot
8:41of stuff away and of course there is the
8:42possibility that everybody everybody in
8:45the world will vote no against you know
8:48all line up and say no dude
8:50you suck okay I could totally happen so
8:56so steal yourself for that it turns out
8:59I put my stuff out and and some people
9:02are like you know a lot of people turn
9:04their nose up in it for sure
9:05no doubt but there's a lot of people
9:07there like I'll I liked it this is
9:09pretty cool stuff I want some more so an
9:12audience kind of formed and so I've got
9:16this audience it's a it's great audience
9:18I like having it is and your your plan
9:21of doing it something that we talk to
9:23investors about here and I'm sure that
9:25you talk to you you have an inventors
9:27and innovators coming to you all the
9:28time because of your success and what we
9:30talk about is you don't want to try to
9:33talk to everyone in the world when we
9:35ask somebody who's your target audience
9:36because they haven't done the research
9:38they say everyone and between all of us
9:41we know we know that's not possible you
9:44know so so it's kind of good that you
9:46have found out who your target audience
9:48is it's much easier to talk to a
9:50specific group of people and to try to
9:53target everyone and that's what's so
9:55great I commend you on being able to do
9:57that and you've probably tried to steer
9:59people in that direction I think that
10:03it's like you got to think about the
10:04niche and granted while I love the idea
10:07of being able to command the thoughts of
10:09the entire population of the planet I
10:12also embrace the idea that that's really
10:14not going to happen I in fact I think
10:15that whenever I get the opportunity to
10:18stand behind or stand up on a stage and
10:20say things that there's going to be a
10:22lot of people that are going to be
10:23saying like this guy's nuts and I think
10:27it's a difference of knowledge set and
10:29and so I think in fact that's a big part
10:31of it I do want to have world domination
10:33I do want everybody in the world to
10:34think the thoughts I want them to sink
10:36granted it's cool to want things I also
10:38would like to have a lovely piece of pie
10:40and to win the lottery but so I mean I'm
10:43wanting things I can want world
10:45domination and it's like well how are
10:47you going to get there and I think part
10:49of it is is this like if you've got
10:51somebody who hates your guys chances are
10:53you probably don't think real well of
10:55them either but it's like okay I wanna I
10:57want I want to have mind control on them
11:00also so what is it going to take and
11:02it's like that the chasm
11:04the difference of knowledge set so what
11:06I need to do is to pick out some little
11:08tidbit of knowledge that I have and then
11:12somehow can decode it and then throw it
11:15out into the general direction maybe
11:17he'll pick it up and eat it and be like
11:19oh now I have this little bit of
11:21knowledge I thought that was all right
11:23it was quite tasty and then if I can
11:25throw a couple hundred his way after a
11:27while it's like he thinks I'm not so bad
11:30you know I'm not it's I'm not so
11:32horrible as he thought a moment ago and
11:34he doesn't seem so horrible to me
11:36anymore either and so this is this is
11:38you know mind control of the whole world
11:41yay team well it's working because I
11:45thought you were nuts at first and then
11:46I listened to yourself I said we is nuts
11:51but I love what you say so yeah
11:57invective maybe the more you listen the
11:59flavor of nuts changes like that before
12:02like that's a guy I want to know Floyd
12:04and then after a while it's more like
12:08not that I want to hang out with ya they
12:10like that flavor well the good part is
12:14is that again what you said you know
12:16you're found out with your gears you
12:17talk to those wolf and you do the right
12:20thing by helping or helping out the
12:22community in other in any way possible
12:25and I think when you do good you get
12:27back anything like you're looking to get
12:29back you're doing good not expecting
12:31things to come back and I think that's
12:34why you've had such great success I
12:36think the the theme of every moment of
12:41every day is make the best of it and you
12:45know there's gonna be tons of stuff it
12:46isn't good to go the way that you want
12:47but it's I mean you start off by wanting
12:50and what do I want how do I want to do
12:52this little there and then you know as
12:54far as the innovating stuff goes yeah
12:58I'm obsessed with a bunch of different
13:01ideas I've come to some conclusions that
13:03are very contrary to what public
13:06knowledge that is I have seen some
13:09amazing things I think at the top of the
13:13list it's like if I I would want to push
13:15the rocket mass heater I think
13:17that that thing is going to totally
13:19change the world I think I think half
13:20the population is going to have a rocket
13:22mass heater in ten years it's just a
13:25smart way to fly and so I've been
13:28working very hard in that space in order
13:29to be able to get that bit of knowledge
13:32in the more brains but so when it comes
13:35to innovations and things that most
13:37people don't know about I mean I'd say
13:39that that's that ones at the top of
13:40those well that's one of the things I
13:42was going to go into you you are a
13:44mentor you're are an innovator and most
13:47of the products or probably all of them
13:49have to do with with helping the
13:52environment I mean is that is that
13:53closer to the troop I'll go ahead and
13:58say yeah I think I think most people
14:01that are bonkers about the environment
14:03are kinda like oh okay
14:07step one to those monks robes that are
14:10super itchy and now lead a life of
14:13poverty and misery and that's how you do
14:16it and I kind of think no no no let's
14:18let's look at how to have a more
14:19luxurious life while at the same time
14:24because really when you're thinking
14:26about the environment and it's like I
14:28don't even need to say that it's like a
14:31lot of this is like dude you're you're
14:32pooping in your own drinking water here
14:34okay or or you're you're doing stuff
14:38that's like polluting the air not only
14:40for me but it's polluting your air too
14:42you know and so it's like I know that
14:46like I went to the Master Gardener
14:48training so I'm I'm actually a certified
14:50advanced Master Gardener and on on as
14:55part of the Master Gardener training
14:57what they do is they get you all trained
14:59up and then they set you loose and it's
15:01like you have to put in a certain number
15:03of hours and helping people with
15:05horticultural stuff and so my very first
15:09mission ever
15:10I was sent up to this place this guy was
15:12talking about like oh I'm sorry I'm late
15:14I was at the hospital my sister's got
15:16cans and in fact here we are looking at
15:19the bush I want to talk to you about
15:20right outside my sister's window I she
15:24loves this bush is so beautiful and
15:27unfortunately it's covered with aprons
15:29so the last four years I've been soaking
15:32it and diazinon like five times a year
15:34and it just doesn't seem to get rid of
15:35the agent and it's kind of like you you
15:38know it's just like seriously
15:40carcinogenic right
15:41so yeah and on top of that to get rid of
15:45aphids it's like it's not really a match
15:48that's really worked away it's like
15:50there's better stuff to get rid of
15:51aphids so ah all it is is this like a
15:56lot of it is somebody somewhere is
15:58making some money and they don't mind if
16:00your sister gets cancer where whereas I
16:03kinda feel like you know I could tell
16:05you a couple of things and it'll work
16:08when it will have much better results
16:09long term and your sister won't get
16:12cancer will be less likely to get cancer
16:15because who knows what else you're doing
16:16that's nuts so I kind of so am I am I an
16:21I know that I've seen articles written
16:24about me and they called me hardcore
16:25green um I I don't I'm not I'm not sure
16:30I would say okay but I've met some
16:32people that call themselves
16:33environmentalists and I can tell you
16:35they're nuts and and so I'm not sure I
16:41there's probably if there's like a task
16:42to get into the club I probably would
16:44fail that test they'd probably say you
16:46love the CFL's right no no those are a
16:48nightmare man um so I don't know um I I
16:54do think that and I I'm very on on like
16:59if you ever seen those videos where they
17:00with the children that have cancer and
17:02you kind of like you know and then and
17:04then they're like in the hospital and
17:06I'm like seeing the stuff in the
17:07hospital I'm thinking like half that
17:09stuff that's in the hospital causes
17:11cancer like this stuff that they're
17:13sitting right there and the stuff
17:14they're feeding them I'm kind of
17:16thinking probably causes cancer you know
17:19what you need to do is you need to take
17:20away these are things that cause cancer
17:22so kids don't have cancer so I I don't
17:26know I know
17:27thanks a and it's frustrating but it's
17:32also awesome to be me yes it certainly
17:34is well you know the and it's not an
17:37issue but you know so much of you have
17:39seen so much that I seems like you know
17:41you get a conflict because you want to
17:43do good so much but there's so many
17:45people out there you you know helping
17:47everyone you just can't do it
17:48or you can do is do what is possible for
17:51you to do that's true I'm pretty
17:56fortunately like I said I have an
17:58audience and a lot of my audience loves
18:00me and I go out and I try to do things
18:06there are dozens of people that help
18:09every day I'd say right now there's
18:11probably 80 people that are at this
18:13moment doing something to try and help
18:15with my gobbledygook um we've got people
18:19that are physically here at my place
18:21we've got kind of a kind of a community
18:23here and they're they're working on
18:26different projects at this time and then
18:28there's people in the online world that
18:30are currently working on projects at
18:31this time no man there's a lot of stuff
18:34going on in my world
18:35yeah well you do again you're doing
18:36something right whenever you're getting
18:38people to help you you know you're doing
18:40something right which again is I commend
18:43you for for doing that stuff let's go
18:44back a little bit to your I know you've
18:46had several inventions several types of
18:48things tell us a little about a little
18:50bit about your other inventions or even
18:52a heater I'd like to hear you know
18:54what's happening with that or what's
18:55going on I would say 8% of my life is
18:58dedicated to the rocket mass heater
19:00stuff Wow
19:01and so in a nutshell if take a
19:04conventional wood stove you're going to
19:07have a metal box and there's a fire in
19:09and then the heat comes right at the
19:11metal box so then the fire end side is
19:14going to be like 900 to 1,200 degrees
19:16and then it's going to send a bunch of
19:18smoke up the chimney and it's going to
19:19exit the chimney at about 300 to 600
19:22degrees and and you know you see you can
19:24look at that you kind of think like okay
19:25a that's a lot of smoke there's a lot of
19:28wood there's a lot of fuel um and that's
19:31a lot of heat going right out the
19:32chimney I wish I add that heat inside
19:35warm in my toes instead um rocket mass
19:40heater instead uh puts the fire into an
19:43insulated box which then goes through an
19:45insulated thing and then you have a
19:46little short stubby chimney that it's
19:49insulated so then we're shooting for
19:52temperatures like 3,000 degrees well we
19:55did you think me Davin right now you got
19:58to keep in mind steel is liquid at 2600
20:01so if you see somebody saying this strut
20:07it looks like ok so I so now we're
20:11looking at materials that can tolerate
20:12such high temperatures but when it gives
20:14to that high temperature it burns all
20:16the smoke burns all the creosote and
20:17limits the danger much cleaner burn I
20:19mean this is basically what a
20:21crematorium does so we're going to take
20:24it to a much higher temperature burn it
20:27more completely and uh then we've got it
20:31moving in a very strong direction
20:33through convective occurrence and so we
20:36then take that extra heat and we push it
20:38through a mass we extract a whole bunch
20:40of the heat then we leak it out at about
20:4370 to 140 degrees is instead of that 300
20:48to 600 degrees of the other ones to do
20:49so what we have now is a way to heat
20:53your home with one-tenth the wood and
20:56now earlier I made the claim of like I
20:59think half the households in the United
21:00States will be doing this in ten years
21:02and so people are like well I'm using
21:04natural gas or I'm using electricity and
21:08it's kind of like there's an enormous
21:10amount of a pollution on the other side
21:12of that and it's like hey hey do you
21:15like eating fish like ever and you're
21:19like oh yeah but you know all that
21:20mercury where do you think it comes from
21:22it comes from all the mercury being you
21:25know all of our power plants putting
21:26that up into the atmosphere then it
21:28comes up you're thinking like oh I'm
21:29going to go catch fish in the most
21:31pristine wilderness and that way it
21:33won't have mercury and it's like nope
21:35it's there - yeah it's all toxic oh yeah
21:37like like 50 years ago you can go eat
21:40that not a problem but now it's kind of
21:42like this total poison and don't don't
21:44eat that so um you know don't we want to
21:49like fix that that we we like the idea
21:51of having poison on everything are with
21:54me somehow apparently we're cool with
21:56that we're okay with that but don't
21:58forget to wear your seatbelt you know we
22:00got a lot for that but cutting everybody
22:03and everything at poison that's that's
22:05like no big deal though don't knock Kurt
22:08whatever you do he's ugly dude okay so
22:13with the mass heater then uh the carbon
22:18footprint and I recognize not
22:20everybody's into
22:21carbon footprint day and it's like
22:22that's cool carbon footprint
22:24if you switch from electric heat to rock
22:27mass heater you have reduced your carbon
22:29footprint as much as parking seven cars
22:31now Elon Musk
22:34some people might call him he might like
22:36if Elon Musk was good at today I wanted
22:39to be on your show dude you'd be like
22:41yeah you oughta bust these guys this is
22:45so I think I just whooped that guy by a
22:47factor of seven I'm sure you go buy a
22:50Tesla or you can get a rocket mass
22:52heater and do seven times more than what
22:54Elon Musk is and you don't have to spend
22:56$100,000 you know you could do this for
22:58like six hundred bucks okay so now I
23:02think I think on the other end of
23:05whatever is your current heat there's
23:07there's a disaster happening and you're
23:10pooping in your drinking water
23:12and so what I'm offering here with this
23:14is not only because it's like a lot of
23:17people you know that their heating bill
23:18not floor of course but up here their
23:22heating bill is like three thousand
23:24dollars a year and and it's like so now
23:28I'm going to set you up with something
23:30where you go out and collect the sticks
23:32that actually fall off the trees in your
23:34yard pile them up in your garage and
23:36that's what's going to heat your home
23:38all winter and and it's going to be you
23:42not only save $3,000 but it's also going
23:46to be like about 50 to maybe 60 times
23:49cleaner than your old heat source so
23:53good for the environment good for your
23:55pocketbook super easy I mean with $3,000
23:59that's a lot of pizzas what is it like
24:00300 pizzas no three people to everyday
24:05but you don't want to order the people
24:07you don't want to one of the pizza
24:09because they use a gas to drive to power
24:11going good well yeah but we're talking
24:14about a more luxurious life man and so
24:16it's kind of like you could make the
24:18pizza on your own but a lot of people
24:21prefer to like sit on their quiet watch
24:24Firefly and then the guy brings the
24:27pizza to your door I mean that's pretty
24:29sweet isn't it oh yeah yeah you know
24:31this the my brother my brother
24:34New York lives on a top of mountain he
24:36burns wood all year not all year but but
24:39most of the year because it's cold and
24:42and he goes through a lot of wood and
24:44and are you saying that the wood because
24:46it burns so clean because it burns so
24:48hot that it uses less wood I would think
24:50it would use more well okay remember
24:55like your brother to pick on your
24:58brother your brother ah
25:02would you believe this he puts a whole
25:06bunch of wood in there and it burns and
25:09then it's like 300 and 600 degrees going
25:11out the roof you know and it's like
25:15would you rather have all that heat
25:17inside your house now I'm in Montana and
25:22I'm in a three bedroom house right now
25:24where I'm sitting is what it looks like
25:25like the tree house over there we've got
25:28to go this over there we go to you I'll
25:30give you a tour later yeah most people
25:33in Montana during the house like this is
25:35going to be about six cords of wood for
25:37winter your brother he goes through
25:39twelve I'd have no idea what he actually
25:41goes through but what is 12 yeah and
25:45then so but if he lived in my house he
25:47probably would do six and and then last
25:52year we heated this house we had a
25:53particularly cold winter last year um
25:55and uh we used rocket mass heater in
25:59this house and we went through 0.6 cords
26:03of wood placer not even a quart of wood
26:07so one tenth the wood but the thing is
26:11is this like when you come on you put
26:13wood inside of a conventional with so if
26:15you're like you know you're going to put
26:17like this much wood in and then when I
26:19go to load up my master it would take
26:22more than like this much at a time and
26:25then it burns it super hot just crazy
26:29crazy hot now your your brother yeah
26:32that guy then then got all that smoke
26:36going on and out to Jimmy smoke is a
26:38fuel that stuff will burn and then this
26:43chimney is getting cake to create sir
26:46and it's like but
26:47that creosote that burns - it's also
26:50fuel now if your brother is not careful
26:52then and he doesn't clean his chimney
26:55frequently enough what could happen is
26:58is that that one day that creosote
27:01catches on fire and and then he'll he'll
27:05hear this rocket sent out this jet
27:07engine sound and that's the creosote and
27:11chimney burning and it's in some people
27:14that have a chimney fire what they do is
27:17they end up standing outside in the snow
27:20and their bare feet watching the house
27:21burn to the ground
27:22thinking like well that wasn't very
27:24convenient at all no and and so may be
27:29that those people would love to have a
27:30rocket mass heater where it burns the
27:32smoke and it burns the creosote to heat
27:35your home conveniently rather than
27:37burning Adair in can be didn't end
27:40safely oh yeah there's some safe stuff
27:43yeah oh yeah I like that I hope keen but
27:47here's the third cool thing to your
27:49brother hot and I'm warden he gets up
27:55and then let's suppose that there's
27:57somebody else there and he's like hey
27:59hey go make a fire cuz it's cold cuz I
28:05didn't want to cuz I'll hold now if you
28:08got a rocket mass heater it holds the
28:10heat for like days after the fire and so
28:14in the morning you get it up it's firm
28:17it's still warm so the mass that gets
28:20heated up it's like you go after that
28:23after the fires that you're like aw jeez
28:24man it's so it's too warm in here now
28:26turn to you know stop beating that damn
28:28fire so you you know cork it and then
28:32you go when you touch the mass and it's
28:33like booth that's warm that's warm and
28:35then the mass continues to give off heat
28:39for days and so you go to bed and it's
28:42warm and you get up and it's warm and
28:46it's like there was no heater going and
28:50there was there was no nothing that was
28:52like there's not a furnace mouse there's
28:54nothing like that it's just as mass it
28:56just keeps giving off heat that keeps
28:57the whole house warm and toasty
29:00well it's uh it's pretty cool I'm gonna
29:02have to get one of these for him I'm not
29:04going to tell him about this it'll be a
29:05surprise though are you actually are you
29:08are these for sale are you still in
29:10testing mode or what's happening
29:12oh we're we've I mean about eight years
29:15ago they were considered like more like
29:1840 curring or for your garage or shop or
29:20something like that but they have come a
29:23long ways it's about five years ago we
29:26started I mean eight years ago some
29:28people were put them in their homes but
29:29you know we hadn't quite optimized the
29:31designs yet about five years ago they
29:35were getting to be rock-solid and a lot
29:37of people were putting them in their
29:38homes now hundreds of thousands of
29:41people put them in their arms but it's
29:43definitely a DIY thing and so we've got
29:46some DVDs that are kind of like a how-to
29:47there's an awesome book out right now
29:50that just came out last year they did a
29:52Kickstarter might help them with their
29:53Kickstarter uh and and so that books
29:56it's a rocket mass heater builders guide
29:58is now out so and they actually the the
30:02primary rocket mass heater of the book
30:04is one of the ones I have here oh very
30:07cool very cool stuff you know there's no
30:09doubt about especially something like
30:11that the way that you make those points
30:12you know there's you say to yourself
30:15there's really no negative negative
30:17sides to it it's just getting it putting
30:19it in and you know using that little you
30:23know you know half a quart of wood
30:25compared to six or ten cords of wood I
30:28mean that's that's something argue a
30:30point right there yeah I think that I
30:33think that it's so profound that's why
30:35I'm saying like in ten years I think
30:36half the people in the United States
30:37will will have one of these the benefits
30:41are profound and people are doing it and
30:43every it used to be like when we were
30:45first talking about it or when I was
30:47first talking about it eight nine years
30:49ago then everyone so had kind of so it's
30:51like that's impossible that can't be so
30:53it's like and part of it is is like if
30:56you go to buy like a wood stove you know
30:58like your brothers yeah then it came
31:01with a little tag it said this is 75%
31:04efficient and and then I'm saying like
31:07you're going to heat on with 1/10 the
31:09wood of whatever your brother's using
31:10and people are like that's a violation
31:13mathematics and the rule of what 100%
31:16means and and I'm digging like men you
31:19don't know what marketing is do you
31:21there's a set of 75% you believed it's
31:25because you believed a lie doesn't mean
31:27I I'm compelled to abide by that
31:31so basically you can buy only a 75%
31:34efficient wood stoves most people
31:35operate in it probably about seven
31:37percent efficiency that gives us a lot
31:39of room to play with so how did I get
31:42there how to get that number
31:44seventy-five percent efficient is is it
31:46is a comedy it's not really in a
31:49controlled environment five by five room
31:54sixteen percent is allowed to go up the
31:57chimney yeah you know and and then it's
31:59like yeah controlled environment what
32:02happens we turn the air pressure in the
32:04room up you know that is basically
32:05blowing on the fire yeah thank God thank
32:08us and the thing is is that if I don't
32:11give you if your stove manufacturer and
32:13I don't give you a good number from my
32:14laboratory you'll go to the laboratory
32:16next door will give you better numbers
32:18so I better you know find a way to get
32:21you the best number so I'm going to test
32:22it over and over and over again I'm
32:24going to give you valid numbers but the
32:25government allows certain things and
32:27it's like now is is are you cute are is
32:32the standard homeowner for the common
32:34homeowner are they going to like do all
32:35the tricks that were done in the lab no
32:37no and so then they're going to like do
32:41things like try to stoke the fire with a
32:43giant log at night so that it keeps
32:45putting out heat all night long but
32:47they're gonna turn the dampers way down
32:48and it's like look at that I took that
32:50seventy five percent efficient woods
32:52though I got it down to two point eight
32:54percent efficiency damn I'm good so some
32:59of the stuff that you're talking about
33:00is it's pretty scary what's out there I
33:02I told her you creepy and and then it
33:05makes a whole bunch of smoke for the
33:07whole neighborhood and you get these of
33:09these communities where it's like they
33:11start banning wood stoves because of
33:13that and and it for very good reason
33:16and it's like whereas a rocket mass
33:18heater is designed so that you can't
33:20operate it inefficiently there's just
33:23not a way to do it so and and then which
33:27case it does
33:27the complete burn and now it's not
33:29polluting wow it's no it's great
33:32information and I and I can't wait to
33:33see it taking more of a mainstream
33:36product it's it's really it's real and I
33:39like you said it's catching on now but I
33:40agree with this type of environment and
33:43the efficiency it has to catch on it
33:46really does so I want to so I want to
33:49kind of Vung you change change up a
33:52little bit and just so people would know
33:55all the other things that you've done I
33:57know you have a website out there called
34:00with does Java coding is it something
34:03with you found out about my other secret
34:06life damn you're good
34:08oh yeah it is a job do it what's the
34:12name of the site Java coding so we've
34:14got a code ranch and Java ranch robbery
34:17dal I think a lot of people are going to
34:19remember Java ranch when they are in
34:20college and Java ranch got them through
34:23that class you know and now we renamed
34:26to the code ranch return I move in a
34:28direction of embracing more languages
34:30besides just Java yeah yeah I've got
34:33this whole software engineering history
34:35before I got bonkers about permaculture
34:39and like just started going down this
34:41path so much and you know that that's
34:43that's something that even you jumped
34:45right into it that's why I would say
34:46that the being is so much to cover up
34:47yeah can you give us a quick you know
34:49maybe a definition of what you mean by
34:51permaculture I mean a lot of people
34:53probably haven't heard that word so
34:55there's a lot of different ways to
34:57express it I think each time you talk to
34:58a permaculture guy if I get a different
35:00you know bumper sticker
35:03mine is permaculture is a more symbiotic
35:06relationship with nature so I can be
35:08even lazier yeah I'm going to do things
35:14that are more aligned with nature so I
35:17I've got some pretty powerful series on
35:20how to grow food I then of course you
35:23know the rocket mass heater stuff and I
35:26think a lot of this stuff is like you
35:29know gisli like with a rocket mass
35:31heater there's ways that fire works
35:34there's ways that heat works and um hey
35:38I've talked to other engineers
35:41that I specialize in the world of
35:44heating a building and it's like they
35:48they are locked into convective heat
35:51they they have a totally abandoned any
35:54thought like they've forgotten it from
35:56college uh any any concept of conductive
36:00heat or radiant heat they don't even
36:03think about when they're heating a
36:04building it's all convective and
36:07convective is the least efficient form
36:10of heat and now I realize I can't even
36:13remember what your question was I've
36:15gone up and I'm getting my blood up Dan
36:20engineers think they know everything
36:22don't even remember to three kinds of
36:25heat no I was I was asking about light
36:28bulbs no I'm just kidding only one guess
36:30oh not just plotted on lights off we'll
36:33save that to later no no I was just want
36:38a lot of people never hear the term
36:40permaculture and I just wasn't sure if
36:42it was something specific but it seems
36:44like it says more it's a more larger
36:47type of culture right I mean it started
36:51out so there's this dude Bill Mollison
36:53back in the 70s and he came up with it
36:56and it was supposed to be permanent
36:58agriculture but he changed it later to
37:00be permanent culture to take him a lot
37:01more stuff and and in time it grew to
37:05embrace a lot of different ideas and I
37:08first heard the word in 2001 and at the
37:11time I had 80 acres and I called what I
37:15was doing a full farm ecosystem or
37:17systems feed systems feed system and the
37:20word permaculture is much shorter than
37:21that and I I really kind of liked a lot
37:26of what it embraced and so when when I
37:29was doing my thing in my farm a guy
37:31comes by and I'm pointing out what I'm
37:32doing and he says oh you're doing
37:34permaculture and I'm like I've never
37:35heard that word before so then I start
37:37opening up all these books about
37:38permaculture and it's like I thought I
37:40invented all this stuff and then there's
37:44a whole bunch of stuff I never thought
37:45of they were like do you seem like
37:47really good ideas and so I showed up a
37:50little late to the party but I love this
37:52stuff and I you know immediately drank
37:54the kool-aid
37:55and I've been into it ever since and
37:57somehow I'm so bonkers about it my yak
38:00about it so much tonight I take the
38:03videos but make the podcast all that
38:05stuff somehow I've got I've earned some
38:08rank or something in this community I
38:10got this lovely thing see that over
38:13Thanks yeah that's sort of there's a
38:16death from a guy that I admired I
38:19thought he was the king of permaculture
38:21um and and he gave me that as a very
38:26happy very happy
38:27so another guy who is kind of like you
38:30know in charge of permaculture he's the
38:32one who called me the Duke I called him
38:35the Crown Prince because at the time
38:36Bill Mollison he is a guy named made up
38:40the word and then this guy was the guy
38:42was talking to Geoff Lawton he's the
38:44chosen one so I said okay you're the
38:46crown prince and so I got a question for
38:47it and that's Ben he called me to do
38:50it's like oh dude you should ever said
38:51that cuz I want to put that on all my
38:52stationery mega yeah well you know it's
38:56so great about what you're doing and
38:58people that you're naming and and and
39:00the rest of the people in the
39:01permaculture we're the types of farming
39:04is that I don't think the general public
39:05realizes how much innovation how much
39:08invention how much science comes out of
39:11growing food and and trying to grow it
39:13now their correct way it just seems like
39:15it's a it's a growing trend but it seems
39:18so hard because of these big companies
39:20that are out there well I I think that
39:24you know there are some big companies
39:25they've got a certain process and
39:27there's I mean that we could talk about
39:29that for seven or eight hours you know
39:31what they're doing and why and they're
39:34lovely people and it's like they're just
39:36not aware of the alter to this and then
39:40in the permaculture community itself is
39:41like when you get bitten by the bug and
39:43you're like I'm going to do this I love
39:45doing this it's more like instead of
39:48like I'm going to do 20,000 acres of it
39:50it's more like I'm going to do four
39:53acres of it and I'm going to feed myself
39:56and feed my family I'm going to share
39:58some of my friends and neighbors and
40:00maybe I'll sell a little bit what I'm
40:02all done so it's like it doesn't fit
40:04into the commodities market but on top
40:08of that it's kind of like
40:09you know we were talking earlier about
40:10cancer and you're saying my call some of
40:12these guys believe they have the cure
40:13for cancer guess what I believe I have
40:16you know as I go it's a different way of
40:20doing it but it will scale you can scale
40:23it to do the commodity system but the
40:26thing is is that most of people that get
40:28into this they started enjoying it and
40:30grooving on it they feel like they've
40:32found their life's mission and then
40:34they're like oh I don't want to play
40:36your stupid commodities game I'm not
40:38into it I don't I used to be they used
40:41to be my job and you know there are a
40:44lot of icky people out there at my old
40:46job and I'm glad I don't do that anymore
40:48I like what I'm doing now and I don't
40:51want to play your game and so so part of
40:57this is kind of like okay how can we
40:58come up with a way to be able to get
41:02this food of a higher quality you know
41:06we're organic is stupid or or tannic
41:09really that is so lame how do we get it
41:13to the masses and it's like yeah that's
41:16that's a that's a challenge because once
41:19you start traveling as fast that's kind
41:20of you kind of don't want to just sell
41:23it to those people it's kind of like you
41:25get to a point where you have everything
41:30you want need and and it's like somebody
41:33gives they'll give you million dollars
41:34is like what would I spend it on well I
41:37I kind of you know so you kind of give
41:39this place where man I'm good thanks oh
41:43yeah well I'm kind of with you I am and
41:47it's funny you say about the organic I
41:49totally agree that the food is a base of
41:52everything it's so important to eat
41:54right as good as you possibly can and it
41:58I say I believe that it's the base of
41:59everything I really do but it's funny
42:02that you mentioned the organic side
42:03because really it's hard to have real
42:07organic food right I mean I mean where
42:08the cria come from I mean it can't be
42:11purely organic from all right oh there's
42:14laws saying I mean there was a there was
42:16a great YouTube video about five years
42:18ago where this little girl tried to take
42:21the sweet potato
42:22and stick the little toothpicks in it
42:24and put it in the water and then the
42:25growers come up and and then she's like
42:28okay I follow the directions
42:30I put the toothpicks in I put it the
42:32water and nothing happened and and then
42:35so then somebody said us because they
42:37spray it but this stuff to keep it from
42:40sprouting because nobody likes buying
42:42sprouting sweet potatoes and so you got
42:45to get organics she goes and she gets an
42:47organic one and sticks the toothpicks in
42:49it and it kind of goes e and it's like
42:53so it had this little bit of sprouty
42:55bits and she's kind of like oh that
42:58wasn't what I thought it would be and
42:59they're like oh no no see with the
43:01organic stuff they still hose it down
43:03with the toxic kick to keep it from
43:05sprouting because people were into
43:07organic even they don't want to buy the
43:09stuff for the spatty bits and the
43:10government said oh go ahead and soak it
43:13in toxic kick that's okay
43:15and so then he's like okay you got to go
43:17down to the farmers market and talk to
43:19speeds because he doesn't know what that
43:23toxic kick is he's never heard of it he
43:25just grows sweet potatoes so then she
43:27gets one from Steve puts the toothpicks
43:30in it puts in order sue huge plant whoa
43:33what the hell that's that little little
43:38what nine-year-old girls YouTube video
43:40and she's like she's like naming off the
43:43chemical but she can't pronounce it
43:45because yeah it's you know something
43:47awesome Wow
43:49so it's amazing I'm glad that the
43:51younger you know there are people in the
43:53younger generation that are noting
43:54noticing these things and I read it
43:56about all the time that they are trying
43:58different things and and trying to do
44:00good it is amazing with the younger
44:03generation how they are starting to
44:04notice it I think that a big part of it
44:07is is like I think anybody would pay
44:09more attention to this kind of stuff if
44:11people were allowed to consider when
44:14they have cancer where it came from and
44:16because right now I think most most
44:19everybody in the world thinks that
44:20cancer comes from the cancer fairy the
44:23cancer fairy comes along and goes and
44:24goes ding you've got cancer ah you win
44:29and then floats around to the next
44:31person woo woo ding you got cancer
44:36like and that's where that's where
44:37cancer comes from see now I'm nuts I'm
44:41just I'm so crazy and so stupid I
44:45believe that cancer might a theory I'm
44:49sure I'm wrong might come from
44:52carcinogens both the kind that we know
44:55about and the kind that we don't know
44:56about but that's just me and I'm told
44:58I'm crazy so I don't know yeah yeah well
45:02you are crazy it doesn't mean you don't
45:03know what you're talking about you're
45:04allowed to be crazy I think if you're
45:06going to be an innovator you kind of
45:07have to be crazy we're all crazy in some
45:09way and you know just just going back to
45:12show how crazy you are you had told me
45:14earlier did some work on on some kind of
45:17space equipment or satellite stuff right
45:19really said my background before getting
45:24bonkers about permaculture was largely
45:26in software engineering and so I did
45:28work in aerospace for a while I am one
45:30of the primary architects for the ground
45:32systems for the spacecraft that takes
45:33pictures for Google Earth and in fact I
45:37wrote a predecessor to Google Earth in
45:401999 Wow only mine on mine you could
45:44task the satellite to take new pictures
45:47now you're talking see I know that
45:50that's what you would do so they didn't
45:57like that well yeah they made this
46:00consumer version like we'll keep this
46:02one in house all right we'll keep this
46:05in house and then we'll make people pay
46:07money for us to take pictures for them
46:09and the one that we showed everybody
46:11else is like you know got that part
46:13disabled yes
46:15that's what good stew chicken man
46:17whatevs amazing just amazing stuff
46:20you've done so much so with some
46:21expectrum of of things and as I said
46:23before you came on to Cheryl I just
46:25started doing some background in it I've
46:27just amazed that not only the way that
46:29you present the information you make it
46:31fun to learn and yeah you act you know
46:34crazy whatever but people love crazy
46:36they get that they want to have
46:37entertainment while they're learning and
46:39I think that's why a lot of the items
46:42that I watched I kept watching because
46:43we're not plating you got hooked I've
46:47heard the people that are like okay dude
46:49I hate you
46:49because I haven't gotten any sleep for
46:52three days because I've been watching
46:53your videos you know they just got
46:55started as I couldn't stop yeah so the
46:59thing about that is that you know what
47:02today's instant knowledge and
47:04information is that a lot of people know
47:06when you're feeding them crap you know
47:09and I don't think you're doing that
47:11you're giving information that is
47:12readily available you're you're
47:14condensing it into knowledge that you're
47:17giving out it within that condensed form
47:19and I think that's what's so great about
47:20being able to watch a YouTube video that
47:22you did and learn a lot and well it's
47:26not you know it's you're not
47:27contradicting anyone you're not you know
47:29calling anybody names or doing it you're
47:32just giving the facts and I think that's
47:34I'm trying to share stuff that I've
47:35found that or I've discovered or you
47:38know I like I saw a saying or whatever
47:40but at the same time a lot of the stuff
47:42I'm sharing information about people if
47:45it's like so very different from what
47:48they're used to then they're having a
47:50hard time with it it's like that they're
47:53mean like rocket mass heater I mean I
47:56can heat your home with one tenth the
47:58wood what people people they had to wait
48:01until I've heard that from like 15
48:02different people before they can begin
48:04to believe it
48:05I mean you think about of the iPod
48:07people probably would never have done
48:10the iPod if it didn't come with a 200
48:11million dollar advertising campaign I
48:14don't have two hundred million dollars I
48:16don't even know how to make an
48:17advertising campaign for two hundred
48:19billion dollars so it's like all I can
48:22do is say look here's a compost pile we
48:24coiled some pipe in it and now we've got
48:26hot water for two months you know and
48:28and it's like got all the all the hot
48:31showers you want didn't didn't cuss in
48:32the energy you know it's like I said
48:34pretty cool but it's like people to come
48:37like what oh I can't be right if that
48:39was right like every other house would
48:43be doing that right and and then it I
48:46kind of think it'd be kind of cool to
48:47come up with something where you kind of
48:50throw in some wood chips
48:52you throw in your compost stuff from the
48:54kitchen and whatever you keep throwing
48:57that in there and even go out there pee
48:58on it once in a while and that's all
49:00your hot water you know it's like the
49:03hot water for that like every other
49:05house has something like that it's just
49:07yeah just this is where all the urine
49:09goes you know I was over here with all
49:12these woodchips and it breaks down and
49:14gets super hot way better I mean like
49:17right now I could I could spend four
49:19hours talking about sewage treatment
49:21plants and what they do and it's like
49:24but you know and it's like that's the
49:25best we've been able to come up with so
49:27far and it's like it's like god I've got
49:29a bunch of stuff that's way better in
49:31that space too we've got some problems
49:34where there's this thing going on now
49:35about peak phosphorus we keep mining
49:38phosphorus and using it for fertilizer
49:40and then we put it into people and it
49:43comes out of people and then it goes to
49:45the ocean and it's kind of like at some
49:47point in time we're going to be like man
49:49I sure wish we didn't send all that to
49:51the ocean because now we're kind of out
49:53and we kind of need that back you can't
49:56really you know bring it back not to
49:59mention the fact that when we mixed it
50:01we took to the sewage treatment plant we
50:02mixed it up with all the industrial
50:05waste from all these of their companies
50:07and then there's all the pills people
50:09make we mixed it up with that and now
50:12it's like not real useful because it got
50:15all mixed together and then we send it
50:18down to the river the ocean and I want
50:21to go down there I don't on there hey
50:26Paul listen man we're going to have to
50:28start wrapping up I do want to ask you
50:31to let the listeners know ways in which
50:35they can watch your information and also
50:37maybe contact you if they had some
50:38questions I have had so many thousands
50:42of people need to contact me I about ten
50:44years ago created forums you know just
50:46like the forum's over at Java ranch and
50:48code Ranch
50:49now there's forms that permease calm and
50:51the great thing I love is people go out
50:53there and they ask a question and then
50:56I'll go up by the time I get to it some
50:58they'll be like seven other responses
51:00saying Paul would say and and it's like
51:04oh man I don't to say it that's sweet
51:07easy so but we we do want to make sure
51:11that everybody who has a question gets
51:15an awesome answer within 40
51:17eight hours we're very passionate about
51:19that so we've got all kinds of subsidy
51:24its RM I get that and I do my personal a
51:31cop Roth permaculture stuff but then and
51:34uh and of course code ranch comm you
51:38mentioned yeah way to go thank you
51:40and the DVDs for avid DVDs for rocket
51:45mass heater zan DVDs for world
51:47domination gardening and and those are
51:51going to be out of the rich soil site
51:52wow it's great and also um you know any
51:55of you listeners want to help out Paul
51:57with any of his Kickstarter programs go
51:59ahead out the Kickstarter take a look
52:00what he's got going on he's always got
52:02something going on and again it's it's
52:04something made to really help people
52:06move forward permaculture which is if
52:09you never heard of that word I'm glad
52:10that he gave us the information on what
52:12it means and I think you're doing some
52:14great stuff out there and I would love
52:16to invite you back on the show give us
52:19an update on what you have going on and
52:21also how to Kickstarter program to do it
52:22all right
52:23I'd love to come back on the Kickstarter
52:25the big thing we're doing is we're doing
52:28that four weeks of classes we're about
52:30to start like we're just a week and a
52:32half away from starting and the
52:34Kickstarter is about like you can get
52:36the two hundred and twenty hours of this
52:38stuff as video that's what the kickstart
52:41reward it's like for 100 bucks and and I
52:44don't know if people are interested in
52:46these these kinds of things we're going
52:48to in four weeks we're going to cover so
52:49much detail it's a it's an official
52:52permaculture design course that's two
52:55weeks and then two weeks of an
52:56appropriate technology course and so
53:00we're gonna do so for four weeks of
53:04stuff I'm 220 hours why it's exciting
53:08it's exciting and again I I hope that
53:10people are interested in it they would
53:12definitely definitely benefit from
53:15getting the information I think it would
53:16be awesome and again I appreciate you
53:18coming on the show today I know you have
53:19a lot going on yeah your time is limited
53:21but you know between myself and our
53:24listeners I am super glad you gave us
53:26some time today
53:28thank you sir thank you very much my
53:31friend you take care you chill man
53:34looking for the next time oh yeah it'll
53:37be soon take care buddy