How to License Your Intellectual Property

Karina
Learn Why Jared and Karina Are Teaching Inventors How to Get Their Product Into Retail Stores
April 13, 2018
Jason Feifer
Editor-in-Chief of Entrepreneur Magazine, Jason Feifer Discusses His Experience in The Business World
April 18, 2018

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Podcast Notes

1YouTube generated podcast notes, please excuse any typos.
0:00
I won and welcome to the ILP Network I
0:05
am Carmen Dennis code your co-host for
0:08
today's show I'll go big go bold IP I
0:12
have with me mr. JD Huebner and we're
0:15
gonna go over some different types of
0:17
Licensing IP licensing right JD you over
0:20
there that's right hey Carmen how you
0:22
doing today good everything's cool down
0:25
this way what's happening up there okay
0:27
well a little peak of sunshine which is
0:29
great and we were April in Seattle we're
0:31
still trying to break through break
0:33
through the 50s this last weekend was a
0:35
little rainy pretty classic though so
0:38
otherwise I'm doing great
0:39
oh cool man cool I know that you go
0:41
you're always I mean I follow you on
0:42
Facebook and social media and I know
0:44
you're always running around doing
0:46
something and how are the the daily
0:48
shows going that you do good good I'm
0:51
super pumped we're actually gonna launch
0:53
our newsletter campaign here in the next
0:55
week or so we've been on social media
0:57
pushing episode 1 through 50 now and we
1:01
get some fun likes and comments people
1:03
are responding to these quick five got
1:05
three four five minute videos pretty
1:08
well the the newsletters gonna be
1:10
excellent gonna show up right in the
1:11
morning I've got a set right now to come
1:13
in at 3 a.m. so people will be at the
1:16
top of their inbox person they see in
1:17
the morning this is really catered for
1:19
any entrepreneur or inventor business
1:22
owner that's you know technology minded
1:24
it's got a new product something coming
1:26
on the market it's a daily inspiration
1:28
yeah it's been it's been pretty good so
1:30
thanks for mentioning that
1:31
yeah I can't believe you're already at
1:34
did you say 50 or yeah is that right
1:37
yeah we're 50 no we're Monday through
1:39
Friday we've been doing it since
1:40
February first very consistent I'm able
1:43
to get them all recorded it's it's
1:46
pretty slick that is pretty cool I know
1:48
that you're you're kind of lucky in a
1:51
way you have a good team behind you I
1:52
know I always I always hear voices from
1:55
the side and behind you by the way the
1:58
videos I watch them they look they're
2:00
awesome thank you yeah kudos to my wife
2:02
my Hooven her she kicks butt
2:05
she's over there like no don't mention
2:06
me she's fantastic
2:08
she really is the team I lay down the
2:12
you know
2:13
my talking head she makes it all happen
2:15
on the video
2:17
well yeah very very professional you can
2:21
hear me very cool they do I mean in
2:23
reality they really look good I mean it
2:25
makes you want to watch them the sound
2:27
is really good and the video itself is
2:30
really good so it makes it easier to
2:32
watch yeah right on
2:34
well this he's blushing over there see
2:36
thank you for the kind words so what do
2:40
you got today I know we were talking
2:41
before we started the show a little bit
2:42
about you know licensing IP stuff and
2:46
when I say stuff you know Wingo but you
2:50
know we were talking before and you know
2:51
licensing your intellectual property is
2:54
a it's a pretty cool way to go
2:56
especially if you have some good you
2:59
know good good you know information or
3:02
good processes right totally yeah I mean
3:04
it's one of the you know a a set of ways
3:07
to monetize IP the primary way to
3:11
monetize IP is is hey I'm gonna go into
3:14
business and I've got IP to prevent
3:17
anyone else from using this without my
3:21
permission right is that's the number
3:22
one way hey I'm gonna I'm gonna do you
3:25
have a firm competitive advantage in
3:29
these sort of ways the other way is they
3:32
say look you know I you know either I
3:34
have already exploited what I need to
3:35
exploit and I'm looking to monetize
3:37
other ways or like I don't want to start
3:39
a business I've developed this
3:41
technology or I've developed this brand
3:42
and I want to do something else with it
3:45
and let someone else use that technology
3:48
or brand or creative work or trade
3:52
secret in a way that that I couldn't do
3:55
it
3:55
and so you know sort of making the most
3:57
out of it and that's through licensing
3:59
yeah I mean you know I I've spoken with
4:03
people just and we'll go to Talk you'll
4:04
get back on the top I've spoken with
4:06
actual public speakers people who sell
4:09
from the stage they all have like a way
4:11
of doing things and I've heard of that
4:13
even these guys kind of licensing their
4:15
process or their proven way of doing
4:17
things I mean it's it's pretty amazing
4:19
that almost anything if it's if it's
4:22
done legitimately can be licensed yeah
4:25
it's cool I mean it's um
4:27
what you understand what it is and you
4:29
can license as I said trade secrets are
4:32
quite broad you can license know-how
4:34
where you just have a you've collected
4:35
all this knowledge over the course of
4:37
your career or life and you want to be
4:39
able to sell it you want to transfer
4:42
your your brain in a way right and you
4:45
do that by licensing you package it up
4:47
define it on a contract put terms to it
4:51
and you just make a deal you know and
4:53
that deal is licensing you say what it
4:56
is you're allowing someone else to use
4:57
for what period of time for how much
5:00
money right and there are some certain
5:02
conditions there but that's it in a
5:04
nutshell when it comes to licensing and
5:06
you're right when it comes to what that
5:08
what that is you know whether it's a
5:11
trade secret or IP in terms of trademark
5:15
or patentable technology you know
5:17
definitely going to change as far as
5:19
what rights exist and you know we can
5:22
talk about lots of different things
5:23
about a licensing contract too today
5:26
yeah I would definitely like to talk
5:27
about the pros and cons and what to look
5:30
for whether you are the license II or
5:33
the license earth right you know and as
5:36
you said is it something that you can
5:38
license to multiple people right yeah
5:41
and so I mean for each for each license
5:45
and we need to talk about life and
5:46
saying yeah you do have to have some
5:47
core understanding of what the IP is and
5:50
so you know well I won't get into that
5:52
too much today I'll try to as we
5:54
discussed it we can break into it but
5:56
let's just this is big patents for just
5:58
a start the way if you're gonna license
6:01
a patent right that means a lot of
6:05
things that means you actually have
6:06
gotten at least one issued patent that
6:09
is enforceable
6:10
so that and that's an important thing to
6:12
understand it's not a pending
6:13
application you actually have rights
6:15
that have been granted to you by the
6:17
government entity to allow you can you
6:20
have the privilege to exclude everyone
6:23
from making using selling or importing
6:28
into the United States so those are the
6:30
four big rights that exist for patents
6:32
for example and so you can license any
6:35
of those for in either an exclusive or
6:37
non-exclusive fashion
6:40
and so if you've owned a technology
6:42
where you have a patent as long as it's
6:44
still enforceable and you know there's a
6:46
certain period for enforceability for
6:47
patents it's 20 years from the date of
6:49
filing you for example because could
6:52
talk to a manufacturer that is here in
6:55
the US and say look I'm gonna give that
6:57
you manufacture the ability to make this
7:00
you know under lots of conditions but
7:02
you you can't your belad to make this
7:04
for five years and for each item that
7:08
you make you're gonna have to provide me
7:12
with a royalty or you're gonna have to
7:14
provide some sort of remuneration for
7:18
each unit sole or whatever the deal is
7:19
however you going to structure it with
7:22
other contingencies potentially right
7:24
and with with patents it's if you're
7:30
gonna do a non-exclusive
7:31
and when I say non-exclusive I and
7:34
that's what you asked about multiple
7:35
parties it's usually the case unless
7:37
you're a very experienced in the
7:40
industry you would want to stay far away
7:41
from an exclusive deal because you need
7:44
that's really putting all your eggs in
7:46
one basket
7:46
sure you might get a better terms you
7:52
might get better terms as far as like a
7:54
you know the deal you need to make sure
7:57
that one manufacturer is gonna come
8:00
through for you and like any business
8:02
you know businesses come and go so you
8:04
would want to have you know a full
8:06
investment into one business without
8:08
making sure there's a back-up plan so if
8:12
you've got a but if you did have an
8:14
exclusive deal you have some teeth to
8:18
guarantee performance and even to some
8:21
degree non exclusives you can still put
8:23
this into the license contract because
8:25
what happens sometimes is you do a deal
8:27
with someone that say oh yeah you know
8:28
I'll be great will routed ten thousand
8:30
units whatever it isn't in the first
8:32
month and you know nothing happens like
8:39
well you know I didn't do it so I don't
8:40
know you well okay so that's that may be
8:43
fine under a non-exclusive deal but if
8:45
you had done an exclusive and they
8:48
showed nothing now you got nothing right
8:50
and you're there the only one that can
8:51
ever make this
8:53
so you they there are some performance
8:55
clauses you'll need to put in place
8:56
especially for exclusive deals and so
9:01
you know that's what that's what I mean
9:03
when I say it's good to have experience
9:04
yeah when you get into these sort of
9:06
business relationships yeah I know no I
9:09
hear you and and I and I am gonna I made
9:12
the mistake one time of licensing one of
9:15
our products exclusively to a
9:17
manufacturer and I can tell you that I
9:21
I trusted this manufacturer I wanted to
9:24
have a performance guarantee in it he
9:25
didn't want to and I made list going
9:28
through with it and but luckily I only
9:30
did it for one year mm-hmm you know my
9:34
worries or what I thought was gonna
9:36
happen exactly happened just like you
9:37
said he ended up not not manufacturing a
9:41
product because he had some other issues
9:43
come up and it happens and I ended up
9:46
having to sit on the product for over a
9:49
year until I got it got the licensing
9:51
got the product back if you want to say
9:53
and I've heard nightmares of people
9:54
signing five and ten year agreements and
9:56
not being able to do anything with their
9:58
product yeah yeah there's tough so I
10:01
mean definitely you know if you're
10:02
getting into a even if you're thinking
10:04
about it it's good to plan talking
10:07
attorney get get an idea of what sort of
10:10
terms need to be arranged specific to
10:12
your your industry in business I mean a
10:14
year is a long time for products may be
10:18
survivable for you know consumer goods
10:20
but if you're in the technology domain I
10:22
mean gosh things happen so fast a year
10:25
could kill you you know and trying to
10:27
get to market so make sure that that's
10:29
understood before you sign anything I
10:31
know it's exciting when you got someone
10:33
that wants to help you and you want to
10:35
get one step further but you gotta check
10:38
the box you're dealing with legal
10:39
contracts get with an attorney you know
10:41
no doubt and yeah IP that's related you
10:45
got to go with an IP attorney they're
10:46
gonna help you negotiate the best deal
10:48
let's help me think about you know under
10:51
Stoli understand which might be giving
10:53
up if you're can if you're making
10:55
concessions because if it's your first
10:57
time out I mean you're probably not
10:59
gonna have as much Paul you know with
11:00
these manufacturers that deal with lots
11:02
of different people you may have to make
11:04
those concessions but as long as you
11:06
were wise about it
11:07
know what you're getting into then
11:09
you're ahead of the game
11:11
yeah agree and you know I do too
11:14
everyone gets excited about it and and
11:16
some things you forget about or you like
11:18
oh he looks trustworthy and and the
11:20
person probably is it's just even that
11:23
license II can't foresee what their
11:26
business is gonna happen in their
11:27
business so they might have good
11:28
intentions but they're as you said have
11:31
the paperwork down if it's if it's not
11:33
written down I go by this now if it's
11:35
not written down then it was never set
11:37
yeah no that's a good rule of thumb I
11:39
mean it's sometimes hard for her to you
11:41
know get that I there's the that there's
11:44
still that goodwill you know the
11:46
handshake and the feeling get on the
11:47
phone but you're right you got it you
11:49
got a document it and and the time to do
11:52
it is when you're on good terms when
11:53
things are happy you know because that's
11:56
you hope that'll stay that way but in
11:59
business things happen as you say you
12:01
know other parties yeah you know have
12:04
other contingencies or they're relying
12:06
on other people coming through to do
12:08
what they said they would so you got to
12:10
have things written down to protect your
12:12
own business well real quick let's kind
12:14
of go through like so many contacts one
12:17
of you are in one of your clients a
12:19
prior to them being your client somebody
12:21
contacts them says hey I'm interested in
12:23
like your product what should that
12:24
inventor do right off the bat I mean
12:27
before they involve you obviously they
12:28
want to save a little bit of money or
12:29
they before they contact you or even
12:31
waste your time should they check them
12:33
out should they you know what should
12:35
what should be the first couple steps
12:36
yeah I mean so you're gonna want to do a
12:39
landscape survey if you've got the funds
12:42
to do one I mean it for us you know
12:44
that's a couple grand you know if you're
12:45
going to get that done what that does is
12:47
it allows you to see who else may be
12:50
infringing on your patent right now
12:52
and who else may be already in the
12:54
market using your technology this is
12:57
huge when it comes to valuing your IP
13:00
and your patent if you've got an issue
13:02
patent the the person that's making the
13:05
offer they may already have the upper
13:07
hand right they already have a supply
13:09
chain maybe they think they can beat out
13:11
the competition you need to just be able
13:14
to come back with an educated stance on
13:16
maybe who's already in the market and
13:18
how what kind of margins they might be
13:20
getting
13:21
this we've really wise about that I so
13:23
doing some research beforehand on
13:25
valuation is it's huge so that there's a
13:30
lot that can go into that when you start
13:32
talk about royalties for an issued
13:35
patent depends on technology but use it
13:38
between seven to ten percent royalty you
13:42
know for for what I call medium to high
13:45
complex technologies if you're talking
13:49
in a pending application you can still
13:51
do a deal but you look around you know
13:54
four to seven percent four to eight
13:56
percent royalty for even even
14:00
applications that are pending I've seen
14:03
deals done those are a lot more risky
14:05
you know because you really don't know
14:06
on the buying side it's quite risky and
14:11
and also there's lots of things to think
14:14
about because when you have a pending
14:15
app you can file continuations and
14:17
divisionals that can come from you if
14:20
you couldn't build a portfolio while
14:22
it's in pendency so you'd be giving up
14:24
rights to that portfolio so it's really
14:27
hard to tell kind of where it's at you
14:29
have to look at each case by case to see
14:32
what sort of to predict what the end
14:35
value will be during the application so
14:38
just more to think about a lot more
14:39
variable as well it's an application
14:42
well it seems like you know it seems
14:44
like you know the beginning of it is
14:46
simple but it's really not i mean just
14:48
the things that you explained can really
14:50
you know give the direction of it very
14:53
quickly even if you're in pending or you
14:57
have a patent yeah that's something real
14:59
quickly before we get on those the the
15:02
worth of the licensing or from the
15:04
licensees perspective depending on how
15:07
long you've had your patent like how
15:09
much time is left on your patent how
15:10
long you had it it does that have a
15:12
dependency on maybe the licensing
15:14
agreement itself well so yeah is this
15:18
could the terms right so a license key
15:19
is is really the person that owns the
15:21
invention license or is the one that
15:24
would prospectively be buying the
15:26
license hopefully I got that right so
15:29
licensee the their concern is trying to
15:33
get the most out of this
15:34
license deal right they want to get the
15:36
most royalties they want to show the
15:37
value the most your question is to
15:39
whether the the remaining term on the
15:43
patent is gonna change the deal well it
15:48
would definitely change the term and so
15:50
if the usually you can get more
15:55
favorable payment terms royalties if
15:58
you're willing to license something for
16:00
a longer period of time and so to that
16:03
extent if you've only got say three
16:05
years left of enforceability you're not
16:08
going to get those very favorable terms
16:10
for royalty maybe on the lower end of
16:13
the spectrum but hey that's enforceable
16:15
for three years
16:16
that license order is guaranteed to be
16:19
the only person in the market for that
16:21
specific technology for three years so
16:23
whether it's one three five years it's
16:26
still that amount of time so they should
16:28
be able to count on that
16:29
that period so hope that helps a little
16:33
bit yeah yeah because again you know
16:35
some people they get a patent and in
16:37
over a few years they kind of get
16:39
discouraged they you know they don't
16:41
they don't manufacture the product or
16:43
nobody wants to buy and then slowly as
16:45
technology or times catch up they find
16:47
that their invention is back in the in
16:50
the limelight or or the type of man but
16:52
there's only a few years left so you
16:54
know time or you know being able to get
16:56
that product into the market seems like
16:58
it's very important not to twenty years
17:00
sounds like a long time but it seems to
17:02
go fast yeah absolutely and you know
17:05
it's another huge thing I think I've
17:06
probably glossed over and I want to read
17:08
it again here is that a non-exclusive
17:11
license or write someone's gonna buy a
17:13
license on your technology wants to go
17:16
to use it know that they among other
17:18
license ores are the only ones out there
17:21
so they're very concerned about
17:23
infringement and they want and they're
17:25
they look to you the patent holder to
17:28
enforce rights on infringers right
17:31
what's the worst thing to happen to you
17:33
know they do a deal with you but you
17:36
know Bob down the street is ripping you
17:37
off and you're not doing anything about
17:39
it
17:39
he's he and a free license so you
17:41
they're very incentivized to make sure
17:43
you pursue infringers and
17:48
now that's for non-exclusive deals there
17:50
are quite oftentimes exclusive deals
17:53
that because view is the patent holder
17:55
you're giving up all your rights to this
17:56
one party you actually cut you you ask
17:59
them to help you enforce infringement
18:02
action so it's sort of a shared duty to
18:07
make sure that there's no infringers out
18:10
there you're really looking for their
18:12
help to do that but for most
18:13
non-exclusive deals you've got a duty to
18:16
make sure you know who else is out there
18:17
so that could be a big chunk of change
18:19
having to go enforce and write those
18:21
season sis letters go collect on those
18:24
to protect your licensees that brings me
18:29
to a good point or a good question I
18:30
guess a lot of times people like myself
18:35
say a licen a product and and it's going
18:37
good is there a service or or or how can
18:40
I find out if somebody's infringing do I
18:42
just need to check on my own is there a
18:44
service I can hire do I need to somebody
18:47
to tell me about it
18:48
it just seems it just seems like it's on
18:52
the inventor or the license II I guess -
18:56
or if somebody just tells you to really
18:58
find out if somebody's infringing on
18:59
your one of your products or services
19:02
they're there any services out there
19:03
that can help that yeah I mean you can
19:06
hire a law firm like like ours I mean we
19:09
did that pretty often
19:11
I'd say once a month at least we were
19:12
before one was called a landscape
19:14
opinion and we look at these industry as
19:18
a whole right if you've got rights in
19:19
the US and the UK and Canada will look
19:21
in those markets and conduct a natural
19:24
language search we rely on Google quite
19:26
a bit and other proprietary academic
19:29
resources to look for journals and other
19:30
publications but it's mainly you want to
19:33
look for commercial use that's can be an
19:35
internet and so we use the common search
19:37
engines that we all know being in Google
19:39
to go do those searches for your claimed
19:42
subject matter so we are experts in
19:44
write patent law and patent language so
19:46
hiring a patent attorney is a smart
19:48
thing to do they're not just going to
19:49
search for you know what you think you
19:52
will be like the picture on the front
19:53
cover of your patent we're actually in a
19:55
search by the claims that you have
19:57
issued which may be very different they
19:59
may be more specific and have
20:01
the types of keywords we'll be looking
20:03
for so while those are not cheap right
20:06
it depends on how deep you want us to go
20:08
look and it actually becomes less
20:11
expensive then more often you have us do
20:14
that we have some clients that do
20:16
monthly monthly monitoring and so it's a
20:19
it's a monthly retainer it's at search
20:21
that we conduct just to make sure
20:24
there's been no had no entries into the
20:25
market for a specific product area or
20:28
technology we would do the same thing on
20:31
the other end we call it it's very
20:33
similar search but we call it a Market
20:35
clearance search also called a freedom
20:37
to operate you may have heard of an FTO
20:39
so this is someone that says look I
20:40
don't want to worry about pads I'm not
20:42
gonna patent my technology I just want
20:44
to make sure I'm not gonna be infringing
20:46
on someone else's pounds so it's a
20:48
different question right so we're
20:50
actually looking and instead at issued
20:51
patents for specific technologies across
20:54
the whole country or wherever they're
20:56
going to be selling so it's sort of
20:57
looking at the market whoever's actively
21:00
gonna be entering the market on the
21:04
front end and then of the other side of
21:06
you you just want to avoid infringement
21:08
you're looking at the patent documents
21:09
so those are two different types of
21:11
searches that we offer quite often
21:13
that's that's actually pretty cool
21:16
I never even would have thought about
21:17
someone is actually hiring you saying
21:20
hey listen and I'm not looking to do
21:21
anything in the intellectual property
21:23
side I just want to make sure no one
21:24
comes after me kind of thing yep
21:27
you got it that's it happens a lot I
21:28
mean people wanna know I mean it
21:30
sometimes it's um it's a level of risk
21:34
right they won't be aware of how much
21:36
risk they're taking in some technologies
21:39
it's nearly impossible to not be
21:41
infringing it's kind of funny but you're
21:43
you can find out who owns those and be
21:45
proactive about touching base and say
21:47
look I'm gonna be into the market for
21:49
this in this I'm gonna sneak a license
21:51
proactively on your product so they're
21:53
actually being aboveboard finding out
21:55
the rights holders and in some cases
21:58
actually deciding hey look you know
22:00
these these folks they don't pose a
22:02
threat we're gonna go and go to market
22:03
knowing that there's a risk that they
22:06
could sue right so it's just having
22:08
information versus going to the market
22:09
blind happens a lot yeah
22:17
totally we do it we've done it a couple
22:19
times for even inventors that we have
22:21
got patents for that our improvement
22:24
patents and you know these are these are
22:26
actually probably the majority of
22:27
patents these days you know they're not
22:29
they don't stand on their own right
22:30
they're there they must have a base or a
22:33
core technology that they're building on
22:34
and they were not the inventor of that
22:37
core technology and so you know what's
22:40
like we use example kind of like you
22:41
know the ballpoint pen you've got a new
22:44
invention for the ball tip you know a
22:46
new maybe a new shape or a new device
22:48
well yeah you can't just go selling that
22:51
but what you could but I guess to go to
22:53
market with you couldn't just go to that
22:54
but have that ball it must be part of a
22:56
new pen and so if that technology
22:58
requires a certain type of ink cartridge
23:00
that another company already has patent
23:02
on you need to work with them or you
23:05
can't just go making that infringing
23:06
their prints do you need to know who
23:08
else might be the owners and have
23:10
enforceable patents on technology that
23:12
you need to go to market on so that's
23:14
another part that we can look at and
23:16
help you with yeah that's what kind of
23:19
again I know I say this it kind of makes
23:21
this industry fascinating it's just a
23:23
whole strategy that everything has to
23:25
come together it's not just you can't
23:27
just when you're spending this type of
23:28
money this kind of time and you get
23:30
other people involved I mean it's you
23:31
can't just take a chance I mean we're
23:34
talking about the whole world here I
23:35
mean it's like you said it yeah there's
23:38
a pen out there but there's always gonna
23:40
be something as a possibility that
23:41
you're infringing so it's so much better
23:43
to know for 100 factorial
23:49
yeah and I'm sure our firm just like any
23:52
other firm would do that we would give
23:53
you a sort of the what we would need to
23:55
charge to do that research so you know
23:58
there's always ways you can make
23:59
decisions to help that's gonna be that's
24:02:00
too much money for us to spend yeah you
24:04:00
know the options there and you've had
24:06:00
the consultation that you know what it
24:07:00
could be about what you could find out
24:09:00
as a business owner and invented it's
24:12:00
way better to have information than to
24:14:00
not never want to go into something
24:16:00
blind and so you know I think I may have
24:20:00
mentioned this earlier on the show but
24:21:00
you know I want to at least put a little
24:23:00
blurb up the book that we have published
24:26:00
on our website that bold patents
24:28:00
komm you can find that the book bold
24:31:00
ideas the inventors guide to patents
24:33:00
there so I encourage anybody listening
24:35:00
that you know to go do some research on
24:36:00
your own go find out good resources on
24:38:00
our websites or others I've been
24:40:00
impressed lightly with the USPTO govt
24:42:00
they've got some good resources for
24:44:00
trademarks good introductory stuff
24:47:00
nothing beats doing your own reading you
24:49:00
know figuring out on your own what the
24:52:00
subject matter is before you just go
24:53:00
hire someone blindly and before
24:56:00
certainly before you go file something
24:57:00
on your own or invest time money
25:00:00
otherwise so just yeah when they're
25:04:00
hiring your firm they're not just hiring
25:06:00
you to do paperwork they're hiring your
25:08:00
experience your knowledge your you know
25:10:00
the people behind you that when
25:11:00
something does happen it's that's what I
25:13:00
try to explain to people is that you're
25:15:00
not just hiring a firm like JD's or a
25:17:00
bold IP to do a patent you're hiring
25:19:00
what they're gonna do is something
25:21:00
happens yes absolutely totally man yeah
25:24:00
and and help it understand the whole
25:26:00
process and with the comfort that there
25:28:00
is a process and we're putting other
25:31:00
documents and some great testimonials to
25:33:00
tell people you can do it too
25:35:00
you know you can win in this game and no
25:37:00
it's not easy but if you follow our
25:39:00
guide you can get there and so it really
25:42:00
is you're totally right you know it's
25:44:00
the consultation it's having us there as
25:46:00
a resource we're not just turning the
25:49:00
crank and you're not just you know going
25:51:00
to the store and buying something off
25:52:00
the shelf it certainly is not you can
25:54:00
just go get a patent you know as well
25:58:00
you just don't it's a process and it
26:00:00
needs to be fitting in with a business
26:03:00
plan or needs to fit with a licensing
26:05:00
plan or sales plan there's some sort of
26:06:00
tangible you know flow and with other
26:10:00
other moving parts so anyway yeah I love
26:13:00
that comment yeah I totally agree so
26:16:00
real quickly we only have a little bit
26:17:00
left in the show the one question I had
26:19:00
for you even before the show just to
26:21:00
fill in is that so we're if we've
26:23:00
licensed some actual patents or actual
26:26:00
products but what about moving into if
26:28:00
someone wants you to license you know
26:31:00
and utilize your logo or your company
26:34:00
name kind of like franchising but more
26:36:00
like licensing is it is it kind of the
26:38:00
same type of steps
26:42:00
to the world of trademark law is really
26:44:00
fascinating you know I know we talk a
26:45:00
lot about patents kind of show but you
26:47:00
know trademarks embody the goodwill that
26:51:00
your organization has built up over the
26:53:00
over the years that's really what it is
26:55:00
it's how customers know you ask and so
26:58:00
they that they see a mark whether it be
27:01:00
a logo or a word mark and they think oh
27:02:00
I know where this service comes from I
27:04:00
know these people I know the kind of
27:07:00
quality that they have and it's
27:08:00
instantly recognizable and so when you
27:11:00
think about the idea of instead having
27:13:00
you know a new party a third party use
27:15:00
your marks for their service you got to
27:18:00
be of course careful that if you're
27:21:00
gonna retain rights in your own mark
27:22:00
while doing this right licensing out via
27:24:00
non-exclusive with the ability to keep
27:27:00
using your own mark that they have the
27:30:00
same level of quality right the day are
27:32:00
and it's truly an extension of your firm
27:34:00
because people that will see that and
27:36:00
hear the other party or be served by the
27:38:00
other party or receive goods better the
27:40:00
party will think of you and your firm so
27:42:00
always be aware that when you do this or
27:45:00
thing you make sure you're keeping your
27:46:00
you know goodwill in in mind and making
27:50:00
sure it's not going to get tarnished but
27:51:00
instead be improved by this relationship
27:53:00
so much like patent Seaview you document
27:56:00
a license by identifying what it is you
27:59:00
know you've got a registered mark you
28:02:00
know oftentimes you know it's important
28:03:00
to refer to the trademark registration
28:05:00
if you have that through the USPTO
28:08:00
whether it be a logo or word mark you
28:11:00
identify the term know how long is the
28:13:00
license for is exclusive non-exclusive
28:16:00
and and then you talk about how they're
28:19:00
going to be using it which is important
28:21:00
so the the types of services there be
28:24:00
providing and I think it's important you
28:27:00
know for Mark's like this I think you
28:29:00
can its business so as far as rates go
28:34:00
I'm not as close with with what you can
28:36:00
get for royalties and I don't think I'm
28:37:00
willing quote anything arranges on the
28:39:00
air but I mean yeah it kind of goes all
28:41:00
over the map as far as what kind of
28:43:00
payment terms you can get for yeah ways
28:48:00
you can work out you know service fees
28:50:00
or or just you know they pay you for
28:52:00
training I mean there's probably
28:54:00
different ways to do it
28:55:00
yep but it all comes down like you say I
28:58:00
think just from what you're talking
29:00:00
about just doing it the right way make
29:01:00
sure the paperwork's in place make sure
29:03:00
you have the right people involved and
29:06:00
everybody is all excited like you said
29:08:00
at the beginning and that's what the
29:10:00
paperwork's supposed to be for you know
29:12:00
when when when things do maybe take a
29:15:00
turn now for the worst but you know
29:16:00
things happen in business and that's
29:17:00
what that paper works for to keep
29:18:00
everybody on the same path yep
29:21:00
absolutely yeah and um you know with the
29:25:00
trying to think about trademark so
29:28:00
you've got you know the people doing the
29:31:00
work for you
29:33:00
you know I would actually identify you
29:35:00
know that people know if you can you get
29:38:00
as close to identifying the individuals
29:39:00
that are doing it if it's a service
29:41:00
because they are the individuals that'll
29:43:00
be representing the brand but if it's a
29:46:00
good it may be harder to do that may not
29:48:00
be as worthwhile you can identify what
29:49:00
that good is you know in addition to
29:53:00
just the one light the one way license
29:54:00
often times you'll see a cross license
29:56:00
and you'll see this in some products I
29:59:00
talked with us last week you know
30:01:00
there's that you've heard the the
30:02:00
Frappuccino the starbucks Frappuccino
30:04:00
not many people know that the
30:08:00
manufacturer that is Pepsi Pepsi Co so
30:12:00
they actually they yeah it's a Pepsi
30:14:00
product and they slapped Starbucks on
30:15:00
the front so Starbucks cross license to
30:18:00
them just to get the product out of
30:20:00
course it probably does use some of
30:21:00
their their coffee but the the
30:23:00
manufacturers not Starbucks
30:25:00
it's a Pepsi so you can do things like
30:27:00
that and use all multiple marks to kind
30:31:00
of benefit everybody once you've sort of
30:33:00
exploited your own separate markets you
30:34:00
can create this third market that both
30:37:00
you know both can tap into that's what I
30:41:00
love about this show because it really
30:43:00
it really talks about that things are
30:45:00
unlimited if you really think about it
30:48:00
strategize it and do things the right
30:50:00
way I mean every time we talk on the
30:51:00
show I'm always overwhelmed after I get
30:53:00
off like never know I think I know a
30:56:00
little bit about it but you always come
30:59:00
up and tell me about these things that
31:00:00
are it's so cool how you can utilize
31:04:00
licensing and trademarks and an
31:07:00
intellectual property if you use it to
31:09:00
set in the right way
31:09:00
I mean it's so powerful yeah it is yes
31:13:00
and but and people don't realize how
31:15:00
much it it is embodied in a in every
31:18:00
business every business has it and it's
31:22:00
important you can actually identify what
31:24:00
it is using IP law you can put things in
31:27:00
in a box you can define what you have is
31:31:00
your secret sauce as your as your brand
31:33:00
you can put it in a document and control
31:36:00
who has access to it who can use it so
31:38:00
it's really fun once you kind of
31:40:00
understand it and not think of it as
31:41:00
just this obscure legal thing it's your
31:44:00
business it's really everything other
31:46:00
than you know I mean it's it's a lot of
31:48:00
course I'm a little bit biased I mean I
31:51:00
it really is it touches the physical and
31:54:00
the yeah intangible you're forming the
31:57:00
basis I mean you're forming the
31:58:00
foundation I mean I think that you're
32:00:00
right that a lot of people when they're
32:02:00
first starting out or say they're I got
32:03:00
a business that's five years old or a
32:05:00
few years old they don't realize what
32:07:00
they're building up they don't realize
32:09:00
that they own some intellectual property
32:11:00
I mean when they come into your office
32:13:00
you must go okay let's let's look back
32:15:00
at this and they probably have this
32:17:00
light bulb that goes off they like oh
32:18:00
yeah I do own things totally totally man
32:21:00
and you know one of the trademarks and
32:23:00
brands are a huge one because it's yes
32:26:00
of course you got sales and you got
32:27:00
Epson flows and you got big sales and
32:30:00
small you know whatever in cash flow
32:31:00
issues and people think about that when
32:33:00
you think about business think okay
32:34:00
what's your revenue which a profit well
32:36:00
you know at the end of the day maybe
32:38:00
after five or 10 years it's really about
32:40:00
how do your customers know us right what
32:43:00
is your competitive advantage what's
32:45:00
your what's your culture you know when
32:47:00
people see inventors launchpad what do
32:48:00
they feel and think that's trademarks
32:51:00
that's a good we'll all right that's
32:52:00
what you own at the end of the you know
32:54:00
10 years or 15 years you know that's
32:57:00
what big companies they work so hard at
33:00:00
and we're trying to reshape what their
33:02:00
brands are all about so if we do that
33:04:00
from the beginning and think of that
33:05:00
kind of prospectively you can have such
33:08:00
a leg up on your competition anyway and
33:11:00
just surround yourself with advisors
33:14:00
manufacturers designers like like you
33:16:00
guys often vendors Launchpad attorneys
33:18:00
like our firm CPAs it's just it's so
33:21:00
important to have experts so you can do
33:22:00
you do
33:23:00
his inventor and the entrepreneur I
33:26:00
agree and that's really in the end as
33:28:00
you said that's what your business is
33:29:00
worth when you're looking to sell it in
33:31:00
20 years give it to your family in 10 20
33:33:00
years whatever it is your business what
33:35:00
your products can only be so always be
33:38:00
sold whatever your product is put that
33:39:00
brand that name that you've built over
33:42:00
the time just word in the processes so I
33:45:00
I tell you what I've been in business a
33:47:00
long time and over the last 10 years
33:48:00
really when I've been learning that and
33:50:00
and that's why I love this show so much
33:52:00
because maybe we can get through to some
33:53:00
of those people that aren't thinking
33:55:00
about that and maybe we're good five
33:57:00
years until they thought about it maybe
33:58:00
but when they hear the show they would
34:00:00
start thinking about it a lot earlier
34:02:00
yeah I'd love people kind of think oh
34:04:00
it's just the warm fuzzy stuff ah that's
34:06:00
just the crab you know and they're
34:07:00
thinking oh it's just about getting this
34:08:00
big sale and and it's it's not it don't
34:13:00
do whatever it takes for the sale think
34:15:00
about who you are who you want to you
34:18:00
know can you kind of the whole character
34:20:00
thing what is your mission which your
34:22:00
vision and stand to this state stand by
34:24:00
that that's what that's what people are
34:26:00
going to value way down the road so
34:29:00
totally all right so we're we're at a
34:32:00
time as usual it seems like we just
34:34:00
started right real quick so what do you
34:36:00
got going on some people in the area can
34:38:00
come see you can hear you talk I know
34:40:00
you got your your your morning shows
34:42:00
happen in anything you want to talk
34:43:00
about yeah that's what this together
34:45:00
brother plug for the bold today show
34:47:00
bold today show we're gonna be sending
34:48:00
out through social media through this
34:50:00
week launching our email newsletter
34:52:00
campaign we've got if you're in the
34:54:00
Seattle area we're very involved in the
34:56:00
incubator called surf incubator su RF
34:59:00
and pretty involved in the the meetup
35:03:00
communities we've got a monthly meetup
35:05:00
on the Southside in Tacoma downtown
35:07:00
Seattle and on the north end where we do
35:10:00
a sort of like a you know workshop for
35:13:00
an hour we invite everyone from the
35:14:00
community come in we don't charge
35:16:00
basically all your questions answered we
35:19:00
want to make sure we're always going to
35:20:00
be available to anyone that's out there
35:22:00
inventing in the community and get the
35:25:00
education out well well great that
35:28:00
sounds cool I know you guys are always
35:30:00
got stuff going on sometimes even on the
35:32:00
weekends
35:36:00
but all right sounds good my friend I
35:39:00
thank you very much all you listeners
35:40:00
out there please go out and visit bold
35:44:00
IP bold IP dot-com
35:47:00
get your free book if you haven't
35:49:00
already it's awesome by the way I got a
35:51:00
couple copies here I read them all the
35:53:00
time but if you can't also please gone
35:57:00
out to Google Play or iTunes leave us a
36:00:00
rating leave us an honest review will
36:03:00
help us with the content that you want
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to hear it'll let us know how we're
36:06:00
doing and as usual I thank you for
36:08:00
listening to the I LPN Network and also
36:11:00
the go big go bold show we'll catch you
36:14:00
next time you all take care