Husband and Wife Writing Duo Jason Feifer and Jennifer Miller Discuss Their Funny Yet Romantic Book, “Mr. Nice Guy”

hi everyone and welcome to the
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inventor's launchpad Network I am call
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mine Dennis Koh your host for today's
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show and we got a special episode today
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we have two people out here husband and
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wife they have a book that's going out
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it's gonna be coming out in October
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they've been working on it for a few
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years they're both business owners they
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both found time to develop this book and
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we're gonna talk to him a little bit
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about how they split the time how they
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got it together we have Jason Pfeiffer
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and Jennifer Miller you guys on we are
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thanks for having us
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hey guys what's happening how's it going
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out there I know that we want to talk a
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little bit about your book but before
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that I want to just talk a little bit
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about what you guys do I know Jason
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fight for all you listeners he's been on
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the show before he's the other in chief
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Entrepreneur Magazine and Jennifer I
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know that you've written books before is
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that correct yeah this is my fourth
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fourth book I think a third novel so
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yeah I've been I've been a journalist
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and an author for a long time now I've
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got a couple of novels in one nonfiction
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book and and I I'm a freelance
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journalist I write for the New York
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Times The Washington Post Bloomberg
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Businessweek sometimes entrepreneur
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[Laughter]
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that's what I do but you know you you
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throw that out there like oh yeah a
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couple novels you know we did you know
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some fiction books I mean that's some
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serious stuff I mean writing to me it's
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it's like and to a lot of people it's
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one of those things that people they go
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blank when they say hey you got to write
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something or even thinking about putting
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a book together and you talk about it
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like it's just an everyday thing is it
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something that you've always liked to do
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I mean I've always wanted to be a writer
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I have no other skills Corner corner
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corner for that one but you know it's
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it's great it's some especially writing
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fiction it's it's all about inventing I
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mean you have to I mean I've never
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actually like invented a product but but
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I have invented a world you know you're
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doing bet characters you have to invent
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worlds and it's just
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it's fun it can be a struggle but you're
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just kind of drawing on a well of
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creativity and it's the best job you
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know I I it's funny I hadn't really
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thought about the connection until you
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until you just said it but what I think
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the most important things in writing
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fiction is thinking like thinking
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logically through how if you introduce
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something into a world you have to think
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through all of the repercussions of that
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and how people would naturally react to
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that and that's very much like inventing
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a product you have to think through how
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are people going to react to it how are
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they going to use it how might they talk
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about it like everything that you do
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creates some kind of ripple effect that
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you have to really consider yeah there's
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no doubt and and it's got to flow
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through and you have to remember all
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those things that happen that's what I
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was thinking Jason
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Jennifer you were kind of downplaying it
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but it it's super important I mean I I
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think it's big it's actually if I
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invented an ashtray it's just an ashtray
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you know
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people 20 years from now we're gonna say
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it's an ass right but writing a book and
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keeping that character and keeping those
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slow it's a tough invention right Jason
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it's pretty it's pretty big oh yeah it's
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super tough you know one of one of Jen's
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previous novels jumped around in time a
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lot and also changed perspective and uh
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she had she had you remember this you
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had like a whiteboard where you had
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mapped everything out and I think there
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also might have been like index cards
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with things on it that you were moving
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around like it's really hard to keep all
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of that together and and have it you
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know I mean you're basically you have a
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million little pieces not not unlike
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pulling a company together you have a
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million little pieces and they all have
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to sing and harmony harmony and if one
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doesn't work the entire thing seems
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incoherent hmm I agree and keep the
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readers interested which is as we all
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know is pretty tough right I mean you
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know my goal in writing fiction and
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certainly our goal in writing mr. nice
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guy the book that we wrote together is
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really to forge a connection with our
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audience and to keep them invested and
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to you know make them want to keep
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turning the pages like we wanted to
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write a page-turner
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and and so you know we worked really
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hard to have that flow to have that flow
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going yeah you know it's I mean this is
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great writing advice for really anybody
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of any kind whether you're writing
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fiction or not is you have to make sure
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like you have to think of economy of
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language literally everything that you
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put in the book down to the word has to
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incentivize somebody to keep moving
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forward like if if there's fat in there
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people will lose interest and people got
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too many other things to do than to sit
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and read a book or read anything read a
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piece of content that they're not
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interested in so everything in there has
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to serve a purpose and if it doesn't you
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have to take it out and and Jen and I
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have we've keep we've killed a lot of
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darlings in this book and Jen has done
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quite a lot of killing darlings and
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prior books - yeah I mean it's funny
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like just thinking about the connection
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between writing a book and starting a
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business you know you hear a lot about
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you not being afraid to fail you know
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businesses having to having a pivot and
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you have to do the exact same thing when
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you're writing fiction I mean I have I
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have literally I've written you know
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hundreds of pages that I've had to throw
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out whole plot lines whole characters
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and then create new plot lines and new
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characters but I think you know as any
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entrepreneur knows when you then hit
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upon the thing that's really right and
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really working it's so exciting and and
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the fact that you had to go down that
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other road it was necessary to get to
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where you are you know successfully
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totally don't you know I I just I was
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telling Jen last night about this very
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frustrating conversation I had with a
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guy yesterday who has a very interesting
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tech business I will not discuss it here
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because I wanna but it was super
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interesting and I think that he is just
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chasing the entirely wrong market like
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he's just his product market fit is not
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there and I spent an hour an hour
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arguing with him on the phone trying to
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get him to focus on something else
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because I just thought he was like he
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was just going down the wrong road he a
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really interesting thing but it wasn't
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it wasn't reaching the right audience
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and it was just the application wasn't
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right and and you can't force something
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like that you know Jen what Jen's Jen's
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novel of the year the gadfly the first
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couple drafts either did not
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tane or contained in a very small way
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what ultimately became like basically
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the main character of the story she had
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to rewrite it so many times that a
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character that once didn't exist and
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then was a small character turned out to
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be the main character and that's when
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the book worked and it was really scary
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you know getting feedback that that the
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first couple drafts were weren't working
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definitely there was a freakout no you
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have that drive and you and you know
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that you know you're not gonna give up
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and you're gonna you're gonna come up
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with a creative solution and you're
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gonna make it work and so that's what I
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did I made it work and it was hard but
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but I made it work and it paid off
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yeah and it's better to do that than to
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put out something that doesn't work yes
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I totally agree with that there's no
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doubt I mean if you know in your heart
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you're saying I'm just gonna get this
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out there it's done it's not ready
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there's no doubt right yeah so but I
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could tell and Jennifer when she's
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talking about the book I mean she
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generally you love what you do there's
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no doubt about it you love it just so
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happy to talk about it which is what
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needs to be done and it's obviously
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you're doing what you love to do and it
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obviously comes out in your books do you
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have a specific following is there a
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specific type of personality that
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follows your books
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man but you know I have to say my books
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have all been so different that I think
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that they have really appealed to two
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different audiences the first novel was
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a mystery set at a prep school the
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second novel was about a pack of Vietnam
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veteran motorcycle motorcyclists
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traveling across the country and now mr.
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nice guy is about to two journalists who
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sleep together every week and then
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review each other sexual performance in
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a magazine columns so so I don't know I
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mean maybe there's some crossover
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between you know motorcycle riding
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Vietnam vets and you know people being
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brutally honest in the pages of national
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magazines about their sex lives I'm not
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sure
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[Laughter]
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it seems like she's an inventor like
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she'll wake up with an idea but she
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turns it into a book and inventors wake
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up with an idea and they write the idea
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down it's kind of the it's kind of the
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same type of thing right oh yeah
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absolutely and it takes you know and it
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takes a long time you can't rush it
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I mean these these projects take years
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years and years and years and they and
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they they change and there is you know
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the Jenna speaks enthusiastically now
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but there is a lot of heartache that
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goes goes into it as well and anxiety
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and and that's all part of the process
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right I mean you know I was recently
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talking just to I mean not to name drop
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but he just made such a great point I
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was recently talking to Malcolm Gladwell
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and he we were talking about about how
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long some things some things take and he
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said that as he's gotten older he
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realized that you need to give a problem
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the respect it deserves which I really
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loved like you know which is to say that
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like sometimes a problem cannot be
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solved in a day a month a year five
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years and that is a you need to the only
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way to solve that problem is to is to is
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to approach it and give it the respect
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it deserves it's a challenging project
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and it's going to take challenging
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problem and it's gonna take years and
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and that's that's the truth for
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certainly an invention like you just
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don't pull something out of you're out
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of the air and then yeah and then in the
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crate and that also I mean Jen her first
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novel took seven years do I have that
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right remember seven years yeah seven
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years I mean that is that's a major
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child but you know what that's when
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you're right when you're doing something
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that complex and for the first time it's
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gonna take that long and you just have
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to be okay with that
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and now now we've got it down to three
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years is how long mister guy a nice guy
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took so that's you know that's
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improvement but uh but you know you
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don't just crank this stuff out but you
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definitely I mean you know so I think
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you know mr. nice guy it's only got two
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narrators in it and it doesn't split
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back and forth in time you know in the
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way that my first book did so you know
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it was a more streamlined more
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streamlined project but but certainly
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you know I had by the time they got to
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book number three much better sense of
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how a plot needs to be constructed of
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how kind of ones
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into the next how to build a climax but
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even so you know we we had written Jason
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I had written had written one draft and
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the feedback that we got was that one of
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the main characters she kind of she
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faded out too much she she didn't she
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wasn't she didn't have enough of a voice
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in the final final third of the book and
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so we sat down we figured out okay well
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we need to throw out the last hundred
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pages and we need to rethink them and we
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need to figure out how to give this
11:32
character more agency how to give her
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more of a role an active role in the
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story she was too passive and so we
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rewrote the the last third of the book
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to really you know bring her out and and
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in the end it turned out to be great
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because you know she does some really
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really exciting slightly scandalous
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things and and I you know it makes / it
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makes for a better story yeah yeah that
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I want to get into talking about the
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book and and how the idea came around
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but real quick how does it feel when you
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finish one of these books I mean is it
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ever the feeling where you you put that
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paper on the thing and yo it's done is
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there ever a feeling for the actual
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authors so I have to tell you I I much
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prefer to be in the middle of the
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project and to be at the end of it much
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prefer because because as long as I'm in
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the middle of the project I don't have
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to worry about trying to sell it I don't
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have to worry what anybody else is gonna
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think all I'm concerned with is creating
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and that's what I really love I love I
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love the creating I love the writing
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once it's done I'm that much closer to
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having to convince other people to like
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it and to want to buy it and to want to
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market it and I hate that and and
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actually that's why part of the reason
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it was so wonderful to have Jason as a
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partner with with this project because
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he's now shoulder shouldering a lot of
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the burden of having to do that kind of
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takes the pressure off of me to be able
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to share it with the partner yeah yeah
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you know and it's funny because we
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didn't or at least I didn't think about
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that part of the
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partnership when we were writing the
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book I don't know if I don't know if you
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did it didn't occur to me that we would
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we would reach the end and then we get
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into the marketing phase and that a lot
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of that would shift onto me and that I
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would be really enthusiastic about it I
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didn't I didn't think but that actually
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turned out to be what it was like Jen
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has always hated that stuff I mean hated
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it to the point where like when after a
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book of hers comes out I have asked her
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like do you want to keep doing this
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like maybe you should stop writing books
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she loves writing books but then you get
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to the part where you actually have to
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sell it and it's it's torturous sorry
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because putting some putting putting
13:46
something out into the world and then
13:47
having to like market it yourself and be
13:48
constantly Hawking it it's it's hard
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hard stuff and I think a lot of people
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are exactly like Jen where they would
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they they really love the creation
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process but the marketing feels so out
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of so out of their hands so out of
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control and that it becomes really
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frustrating and so frustrating to have
14:05
worked on something for so long and know
14:07
that it's so good and then not
14:10
understand how to get it in front of
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people it's like you just step away and
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let their publishers handle it and the
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publishers you know do more or less
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depending I have always really leaned
14:28
into it and tried to be really
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entrepreneurial and really creative it's
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exhausting it's exhausting to do that
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when there's so much at stake and that's
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why it has just been so delightful god
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bless you Jason for for taking or taking
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I mean I'm just so I'm so happy that you
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love doing it because I'm helping but
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but I'm really letting him take the lead
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because emotionally it's just too much
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yeah that's awesome
14:57
know one of the things even up that I
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learned for one of Jason's podcasts is
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you need a team to have something
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successful I mean so so yeah you do what
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you love to do and you can help but
15:06
having that person that loves to do the
15:08
marketing less to sell like you said
15:10
there's so much pressure off you you get
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to do what you love to do whether it was
15:13
Jason or someone else helping that's
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what they do huh and it needs it you
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need a team to do something successfully
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yeah that's that's that's totally right
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and you know we should be and it would
15:25
be we don't do
15:26
right now but I'd love to take people
15:28
through a little data that we have
15:29
because I did this survey for
15:31
entrepreneur rather I I partnered with
15:34
Survey Monkey to interview a thousand
15:36
and seven people I don't know why they
15:38
picked a thousand a thousand would have
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been fine with me
15:40
about a thousand and seven people about
15:42
working together with close friends
15:45
family or spouses I was really
15:47
interested in how that worked for people
15:49
because we had gone through it and
15:50
people are always very curable if my
15:54
wife is and you're still married as two
15:57
people uh so um so it turns out actually
15:59
that this is it's quite common 78% of
16:03
the those people who were surveyed had
16:05
worked together with a close friend
16:06
family member or spouse and 87% of them
16:09
said that it was a good experience and
16:10
the number one reason the number one
16:14
strategy that they offered for making it
16:16
successful was establishing clear roles
16:18
and responsibilities like if and and I
16:21
think that like that is for so many
16:23
different reasons like one of them is so
16:24
that you're just not stepping on each
16:25
other's toes and you have like you
16:26
understand who has final say on what and
16:28
that's really important but also I think
16:30
it's because you want to make sure that
16:31
that there's a you have a partnership
16:33
where each side owns a part of it and
16:38
also is appreciative of the other side
16:39
owning a part of it right like I'm you
16:42
know I I am I am NOT a fiction writer
16:44
I'm not I'm a I'm a magazine editor and
16:47
a nonfiction writer I have I just don't
16:50
know how to do fiction so Jen does we
16:52
plotted this book out together but Jen
16:54
wrote the majority of it like the bulk
16:57
of that of that thing like the words
16:58
came out of her and so she really took
17:01
the lead on the writing of it and I've
17:03
taken the lead on the marketing of it
17:05
and and that is like that's a great
17:07
partnership and when you think of a book
17:08
you don't think of a partnership like
17:10
quite like that you don't think of the
17:11
marketing is really part of the book but
17:12
frankly it is because if you write a
17:14
book and you don't market it then nobody
17:16
read it and then why write it in the
17:17
first place it's important to do both I
17:19
agree that's what happened to my book I
17:21
think I sold three copies Jason you're a
17:29
hard percent right and that's what you
17:31
know intrigued me about your book is
17:33
that it sounds like and and as Jennifer
17:35
said it sounds like you guys had fun I
17:37
mean it was work I don't need her dinner
17:39
but you did
17:40
you you you you made sure you had clear
17:42
roles and you kind of made it fun it's a
17:44
fun you know subject matter obviously
17:46
yes yeah had fun doing it which is
17:49
really what you want to do but no we had
17:52
so much fun I mean you know I can't even
17:53
tell you how many how many car rides how
17:56
many dinners out we did a we did a long
17:59
road trip a couple years ago from South
18:03
Florida to New Orleans and and you know
18:07
that's a lot of hours in the car with
18:09
your husband and we spent a lot of that
18:13
time you know plotting out the book and
18:16
thinking through you know thinking
18:18
through like wouldn't it be cool if like
18:19
this happened and this person did this
18:21
and this person did that and let's throw
18:23
a remote control vibrator into this
18:25
scene and let's have a let's have a
18:27
person burst out of a cake and put money
18:30
around and this scene like just it's you
18:33
know it's great you actually never run
18:35
out of things to talk about when when
18:37
you've got a world to build so yeah you
18:40
know so let's talk a little bit about
18:42
the book obviously you came up with the
18:44
idea you didn't just start making you
18:46
know just developing the book right away
18:47
Jason and Jennifer there was there was
18:50
some time involved and just like an
18:51
invention coming up with the idea right
18:53
yeah yeah so and in fact just like an
18:56
invention manat like first of all the I
19:00
from idea to execution doesn't have to
19:02
happen immediately and sometimes I think
19:05
that you can have an idea the right idea
19:08
at the wrong time so this was this is
19:11
really a case of the right idea at the
19:12
wrong time this the idea for this book
19:15
mister and I feel like we should start
19:18
talking about the book without actually
19:19
saying what the book is No so I'll just
19:22
state it again so it's called mr. nice
19:23
guy it's about two people who each week
19:24
sleep together and then critically
19:25
review each other sexual performance in
19:27
a magazine and it is it is it started
19:30
with me in my 20s you know we're in our
19:33
late 30s now and I had I just started my
19:38
career as a journalist and freelance
19:41
writer and I had written a couple pieces
19:42
for for various magazines in there kind
19:46
of like sex and dating columns and a a
19:49
young sex columnist reached out to me
19:53
for
19:53
were freelance writing advice and I was
19:58
fun to trade emails back and forth and
20:00
we stayed in touch for maybe about a
20:01
year and it was over the course of
20:03
exchanging emails with her that I came
20:06
up with the premise for this I just
20:07
thought what would what would it what
20:08
would what would happen if two people
20:11
did this in a magazine like stuff
20:13
together and critically reviewed and it
20:14
was almost like a thought experiment and
20:16
I kicked it around and I told friends
20:17
and I tried to write it a couple times
20:19
and like and then you know flash forward
20:21
like like eight years or whatever I met
20:23
I met Jen and I told her about this
20:25
premise in one of our first dates and
20:27
she encouraged me to write in and I just
20:29
I just couldn't I just I tried I didn't
20:31
know where to go with it and so what it
20:33
really took was and this is like this is
20:36
where you get to write idea right time
20:38
what it really took was one marrying
20:41
someone who actually knows how to write
20:42
novels really really valuable hack write
20:45
that and and then and then two after Jen
20:49
sold her most recent novel she was
20:51
looking for a new project and I said you
20:52
know what write my idea because I'm not
20:55
gonna do it but we both agree that it
20:57
should be done and she said no we should
20:59
do it together and then we had it week
21:01
then the idea was born right and so it
21:04
was like sometimes and this has happened
21:07
to me many other times before like even
21:09
even with even with articles for
21:10
magazines where I had an idea for
21:12
something and I didn't actually execute
21:15
it for ten years eight years whatever it
21:18
was and I'm so glad that I waited that
21:20
time because I did it when it was right
21:23
right like there was I did this one
21:25
story about this homeless baseball team
21:28
a team with no home that the players are
21:31
at home was the team's home and I I
21:33
thought of that idea when I was maybe 25
21:35
28 and and I and I executed it when I
21:37
was 35 and I was such a better writer by
21:41
the time I was 35 that I was really able
21:43
to do justice to this idea that I don't
21:45
think I would have been able to pull off
21:46
if I had tried it at 25 and I think the
21:48
same thing can be true for in inventors
21:50
of all kinds where you know you may have
21:53
an idea but you don't have the technical
21:55
know-how or you may have an idea you
21:56
don't have the right partners or
21:58
whatever hold on to it don't abandon it
22:00
don't say well I can't do it now so I'll
22:01
never be able to do it just keep it in
22:03
your back pocket and look for that right
22:05
opportunity and at some point you may
22:07
finally have right idea right time and
22:10
you'll have yourself a hit that's
22:12
happened with me with my books I mean
22:13
was the motorcycle Vietnam vets I had
22:16
written a story about real-world
22:18
motorcycle Vietnam vets for the New York
22:20
Times I think back in 2005 and I'd
22:24
actually tried to turn it into a
22:26
nonfiction book and wasn't able to sell
22:29
it and so you know was disappointed but
22:31
I put it in a drawer and then literally
22:33
a decade later when I was looking for a
22:37
new project I thought you know I've done
22:39
so much work on this already and now I'm
22:42
a fiction writer maybe I should try it
22:44
as fiction maybe I should put it in a
22:46
new medium and so I pulled out all of my
22:50
old research and notes and I end up
22:51
writing this novel and was able to sell
22:53
it and it was wonderful
22:55
and you know that novel is called the
22:59
heart you carry home I wish that that
23:03
the 25 year old me would have had some
23:07
advice from the 35 year old me you know
23:09
to know hey you're not abandoning this
23:12
it's just not the right time the right
23:15
time will come I wish I know that's huge
23:18
advice I mean you had a book sitting in
23:22
your draw like you said and you
23:23
repurpose it it's so important for
23:25
people to realize that there's no bad
23:27
ideas it's just execution time right I
23:30
mean just knowing and having a team this
23:33
didn't no doubt having the right team by
23:36
the time you know 10 years later I mean
23:39
I had I had that team in this case I had
23:42
I had a great agent I had a great editor
23:44
who you know people who were really able
23:46
to see my vision that when I tried it
23:50
the first time I didn't really have that
23:51
and so you know it was I think the
23:53
confluence of like Jason said being
23:56
older being a better writer but also
23:58
having that support network that I had
24:01:00
been able to build helped to bring that
24:03:00
book to fruition yeah yeah I think a lot
24:06:00
of people are as you guys both pointed
24:08:00
out they're kind of fearful of what
24:10:00
their peers what the public is going to
24:13:00
think about their written word or their
24:15:00
ideas and it holds a lot of people back
24:17:00
whereas you guys have your each other
24:19:00
but you have your
24:21:00
people you have your teams and you've
24:23:00
done it before so it's just breaking out
24:25:00
into that world and you know trusting I
24:27:00
mean both of you guys having articles in
24:29:00
magazines intelligent and newspapers it
24:32:00
it just means so cool to be able to say
24:34:00
that's my article I just love it that
24:37:00
you guys can do that stuff yeah it's
24:40:00
really it's very very satisfying I gotta
24:42:00
say although you know it's funny even
24:43:00
even you know a speaking of like you
24:48:00
know getting feedback or dealing with
24:50:00
the public's reaction so on past novels
24:53:00
yeah I have been the filter for reviews
24:56:00
for Jen so so I will set a Google Alert
24:59:00
for her books and then I will see
25:02:00
everything that comes in and then I will
25:04:00
pass along the stuff that will not give
25:06:00
her too much anxiety I think we're gonna
25:11:00
be working on the under the same premise
25:13:00
for mr. nice-guy we have we've had one
25:17:00
review come in so far from Kirkus which
25:19:00
is a trade publication it was a great
25:21:00
review big relief but I think you know
25:25:00
from from here on out I think Jason
25:27:00
Jason's going to be that filter I mean
25:30:00
I'm really curious to see kind of what
25:32:00
the public reaction to to this is
25:35:00
because we're dealing with stuff that is
25:38:00
like kind of culturally controversial I
25:40:00
mean people don't talk about sex that
25:43:00
openly and the very project right of
25:47:00
like you know revealing like your most
25:50:00
intimate moments in you know in national
25:53:00
publications I don't know I really
25:57:00
curious to see what the reaction yeah
26:00:00
yeah you're like oh my and your
26:01:00
listeners should know that we're so
26:02:00
we're speaking in in August very early
26:06:00
August and so this is this this show is
26:08:00
is launching in October so I guess by
26:10:00
the time people are listening to this
26:11:00
quite a lot will have happened you're
26:13:00
catching us at a at an interesting
26:14:00
moment where you know we've we've lined
26:16:00
up with marketing we can that we don't
26:19:00
really know who's gonna write about us
26:21:00
yet we don't know what's gonna happen
26:22:00
the very first things that happened when
26:24:00
you release a book is that is that these
26:25:00
two trade publications review it which
26:28:00
is Kirkus which we got and then
26:29:00
Publishers Weekly which we haven't heard
26:31:00
yet so those are the first like
26:32:00
indications of how people are going to
26:33:00
react to
26:34:00
and then then the rest will come over
26:36:00
time so we're really just in a
26:38:00
wait-and-see mode what a nerd what a
26:40:00
nerve-racking time period ah I'm with
26:43:00
Jennifer you're just like waiting for
26:44:00
okay what are they gonna say but it is
26:47:00
not only is it it seems like it's a
26:50:00
taboo subject I don't understand why I
26:52:00
think it's a fun subject people more
26:54:00
open should be more open about talking
26:55:00
about it I think it's a great idea to
26:57:00
write about it because it brings it out
26:58:00
to public and you're making it kind of
27:00:00
fun in a way yeah I'm a we hope I mean
27:04:00
you know I think that I think that I I
27:07:00
mean I'm just a big both of us are big
27:10:00
believers in in just a better better
27:12:00
communication and from everything from
27:14:00
everyone right everything should be
27:16:00
talked about and that and that people
27:18:00
are people are hurt when you aren't able
27:21:00
to talk about important things and to to
27:24:00
somebody or whatever degree this book
27:26:00
can be a conversation starter for people
27:29:00
I think will have really provided some
27:31:00
value to people's lives that's how I
27:33:00
look at it too it's a fun you know again
27:35:00
a fun book to write but again it could
27:37:00
end up helping people also to be better
27:39:00
communicative to talk about things to be
27:41:00
more open so in the long run I think
27:43:00
it's a it's a great overall type project
27:46:00
for you guys thank you thank you yeah we
27:49:00
we certainly hope so
27:51:00
we'll see between now and when people
27:53:00
listen to this show we'll learn a lot
27:55:00
about what people think about that you
28:03:00
know Jason was talking a little bit
28:04:00
about I guess your first date are prior
28:07:00
to your first date he talked about using
28:10:00
he was a writer and one of the reasons
28:13:00
you went out with them is because he
28:14:00
used the semicolon in the correct place
28:16:00
is that correct yes I am a huge dork
28:19:00
[Laughter]
28:21:00
anybody well so so I should I should say
28:25:00
that Jason and I were using we're online
28:27:00
dating this was before tinder before
28:31:00
bumble like there wasn't that kind of
28:33:00
swipe that those swiping sites didn't
28:35:00
exist and so and so everything was
28:38:00
really based more around these long-form
28:41:00
profiles people are like really crafting
28:45:00
their profiles or
28:46:00
you know you'd get these profiles from
28:48:00
guys who they were just like full of
28:51:00
typos and like you know didn't you know
28:54:00
didn't use posture fees correctly and
28:57:00
you know would use like just stupid
28:59:00
slang like sup and you know I just and
29:04:00
so you know very quickly you learn you
29:06:00
know being being a nerd like myself you
29:09:00
filter out a lot of that stuff but then
29:11:00
of course you know there is like you
29:13:00
know decent writing but then there's
29:14:00
like the gold standard where you pull
29:17:00
out you pull out a rather complicated
29:21:00
grammatical punctuation mark like a
29:23:00
semicolon and and use it correctly it's
29:27:00
like oh my god the music's play who's
29:35:00
this grammatical Knight what I like this
29:40:00
I like being called a grammatical Knight
29:43:00
what Jennifer that that's what's great
29:45:00
about it those things were important to
29:47:00
you you I don't think you're a nerd
29:48:00
about it
29:49:00
but there's things that are important to
29:51:00
you that those that that stuck that it
29:54:00
was important so I think it's pretty
29:55:00
cool that those little things you know
29:58:00
brought you to Jason because of his
30:00:00
writing abilities that was definitely
30:08:00
the first the first indication that you
30:12:00
know that at least we have the potential
30:14:00
to hit it off ya know that but it is
30:17:00
important I mean we see it and I know it
30:19:00
probably drives Jason crazy you see it
30:21:00
all the time I mean if people don't
30:22:00
reread what they're sending or what
30:25:00
they're talking about I mean it's just
30:26:00
you gotta spend a little bit of time oh
30:29:00
my god can I it's so funny thing I just
30:32:00
did a I don't know it's got a web but no
30:35:00
I did it whatever I was I I spoke to a
30:37:00
group of young entrepreneurs by web and
30:40:00
they were like 40 of them that tuned in
30:42:00
and we talked a lot about writing and
30:44:00
the importance of writing and I really
30:45:00
stress to them something that I'd
30:47:00
mentioned earlier in in our show here
30:50:00
that you have to think about economy of
30:52:00
language everything that you put into
30:54:00
any piece of writing has to has to be
30:57:00
justified has to have a purpose you have
30:58:00
to really think hard about
31:00:00
and afterwards one of the one of the
31:03:00
kids who had tuned in sent me Jennifer
31:06:00
got to show you this sent me a blog post
31:09:00
that he wrote and he's got some blog
31:11:00
about my talk it was he basically just
31:14:00
gonna recap the things that I said it
31:15:00
was in including quite a lot of
31:17:00
stressing about the importance of
31:19:00
writing and in this piece he misspelled
31:23:00
my name three different ways like but my
31:27:00
it was like is my name it's like
31:29:00
Pfeiffer his Fei fer there was like fi
31:31:00
fer feef you're like he just it just
31:33:00
kept changing right it was like dude you
31:37:00
like you said you've repeated the thing
31:39:00
that I said but you didn't integrate it
31:41:00
into how you're writing and and I'll
31:43:00
tell you like that stuff it's it's so
31:46:00
the simplest thing in the world is to
31:48:00
spell somebody's name correctly it's the
31:50:00
simplest thing in the world all it takes
31:52:00
is is like is just looking for for
31:55:00
another half a second at it and for some
31:58:00
reason people screw that up all the time
32:00:00
and they make basic basic writing errors
32:03:00
they email me they send me pitches and
32:05:00
they address I get at least one a day a
32:08:00
pitch addressed to somebody named Jeff I
32:10:00
don't know Jeff is he doesn't work here
32:12:00
right and I just get that all the time
32:14:00
and it's just it's so basic everybody
32:17:00
needs to stop and reread before hitting
32:21:00
said stop and reread everything it's
32:23:00
just it's so important I can't stress
32:25:00
how important it is you you look like a
32:26:00
fool if you have not reread your
32:28:00
anything that you write yeah 100 percent
32:31:00
write down if I mean if you're trying to
32:33:00
introduce yourself or looking for
32:35:00
someone's help and you can't spend an
32:38:00
extra couple of minutes to reread it's
32:40:00
it's gonna be a little bit tough well
32:42:00
it's really it's really important I mean
32:43:00
it's it is a kind of first impression
32:45:00
right and so you know certainly in the
32:48:00
literary world I mean when you're trying
32:50:00
to find an agent when you're trying to
32:52:00
make connections you got you know you
32:54:00
the what you write needs to be hero
32:57:00
written it needs to be thought out it
32:59:00
needs to be your copy needs to be clean
33:01:00
same thing when you're pitching an
33:02:00
editor and if you're pitching if you're
33:04:00
pitching is you know a magazine or
33:06:00
cult to an editor and it's full of
33:08:00
errors and mistakes that editors not
33:10:00
going to take you seriously it's just
33:12:00
kind of basic professionalism but it
33:14:00
really is like when you're writing it's
33:16:00
a kind of first impression that's really
33:17:00
important so pay attention to yeah I
33:20:00
agree
33:21:00
for your for the book mr. nice guy was
33:23:00
it was a tough to find an editor or
33:26:00
someone who produced a book or send that
33:28:00
out or do you already have someone in
33:29:00
mind so what we first had to find an
33:32:00
agent that was the first hurdle we each
33:36:00
actually have our own agents but we
33:39:00
needed to find the right kind of agent
33:41:00
for this kind of book so so just to set
33:45:00
up like this is how the industry works
33:46:00
so this is this is every book that's
33:48:00
sold to in a traditional publishing
33:49:00
platform goes this way so like the first
33:52:00
step is agent sorry no and you need to
33:56:00
find the right it's just like you know
33:57:00
when you're I guess like when you're
33:59:00
looking for an investor for example like
34:01:00
some investors like the product if
34:03:00
company is right for them and and some
34:05:00
it's not and so you want to find the
34:07:00
agent who is familiar and really
34:10:00
passionate about the type of book you're
34:13:00
writing so my previous books they were
34:14:00
more literary fiction this ones were
34:16:00
commercial it's you know it's a rom-com
34:18:00
it's a satire it's you know fast fast
34:21:00
paced and comedy and so we needed the
34:26:00
right kind of agent so it definitely
34:27:00
took us a little while to pinpoint that
34:30:00
age and then once we did that then the
34:33:00
agents basically it's their job to find
34:37:00
the right publisher and it's the same
34:39:00
it's the same thing so the agent needs
34:41:00
to kind of go through all of his or her
34:44:00
contacts and resources and know you know
34:47:00
how about the industry and figure out
34:49:00
who are the right editors to pitch this
34:51:00
book - and so our agent pitch that you
34:55:00
know pitch the book out to a bunch of
34:56:00
editors and then it's really
34:58:00
nerve-racking right you're waiting
35:01:00
sometimes for weeks to see you know
35:03:00
what's what's gonna happen and then of
35:05:00
course it's not just the editor who
35:07:00
needs to like the book but the editor
35:09:00
has to like it and then they have to
35:10:00
sell it to their whole team so we
35:14:00
definitely got so we got a number of
35:16:00
editors who passed we
35:17:00
a number of editors who really like the
35:19:00
book and weren't able to sell it to
35:21:00
their team and then fortunately her
35:25:00
couple of editors who really like the
35:28:00
book and were able to sell it to their
35:29:00
team and so then you know it was a
35:32:00
question of figuring out who would be
35:34:00
the right fit for for us and that's
35:37:00
that's what happened but I remember it
35:40:00
was last it was last year over fourth of
35:42:00
July actually Jason and I were in Maine
35:44:00
visiting my parents
35:45:00
when we were getting the rejections and
35:48:00
the maybes and the you know it was just
35:50:00
nailed we were fighting I was biting my
35:52:00
nails
35:53:00
Jason probably you know supremely
35:56:00
confident I was really confident yeah
35:59:00
yeah that's why we got introduced to the
36:01:00
phrase positive first read which is what
36:04:00
happens when the editor likes it but
36:06:00
hasn't yet sold it to their team it's a
36:08:00
positive first read the first read but
36:10:00
like you know then some of those
36:12:00
positive first reads trying to ultimate
36:13:00
rejections and yeah it was uh it was it
36:16:00
was it was wild we actually crazily sold
36:18:00
a foreign maybe even multiple foreign
36:21:00
right yeah couple foreign rights before
36:23:00
we before one of the American publisher
36:25:00
is actually purchased it we end up going
36:27:00
with st. Martin's Press which is you
36:28:00
know a great and huge and well-respected
36:31:00
press we were very excited yeah I mean
36:34:00
it seems like it seems like Jason's the
36:37:00
the patient one he seems very patient
36:40:00
like I'm patient the most impatient
36:43:00
patient person like I couldn't I'd be
36:45:00
going crazy right you know he's kind of
36:54:00
a perennial optimist
36:58:00
he's great mix I mean you guys have like
37:00:00
the perfect storm to you have any uh any
37:03:00
more ideas or books in mind or you're
37:06:00
like that's enough of this teaming up no
37:09:00
we do we we're actually working on
37:11:00
another book right now it's going to be
37:15:00
a long time coming but but yeah it's
37:18:00
about it's about two political pundits
37:20:00
who are kind of on opposite ends of the
37:22:00
spectrum who get romantically involved
37:27:00
okay can I just say about about my own
37:29:00
about my own
37:30:00
optimism how I get through through stuff
37:32:00
like that so a thing that I do it's not
37:34:00
just it's not just baked in optimism I
37:37:00
think I mean I think there is a lot of
37:38:00
that but like you know if you don't have
37:39:00
baked in optimism but you're still
37:41:00
trying to not be curled up on the couch
37:43:00
like Janis one here's the way here's the
37:47:00
way I think of it and this is this is
37:48:00
what I always try to tell her and then
37:49:00
um I don't know how much she's actually
37:52:00
able to follow it but I just say I just
37:54:00
say like um what we need is the
37:56:00
information like when we get the
37:58:00
information we can respond to the
38:00:00
information but until we have the
38:01:00
information there's no point worrying
38:03:00
about what we don't know so like you
38:07:00
know if there are if we had gone out to
38:08:00
I can't remember how many houses we
38:10:00
would publishing houses we went out but
38:11:00
let's to say we went out to ten we went
38:13:00
out to ten and we've heard from three
38:15:00
and there knows like there's no reason
38:18:00
to get worried we don't know what
38:19:00
happened with the other seven I don't
38:20:00
know I don't have the information so I'm
38:22:00
going to wait until I have the
38:24:00
information and then I'm going to deal
38:25:00
with the information right like just
38:26:00
because everything is just a problem to
38:28:00
be solved and if if if we've gotten
38:31:00
seven more knows well that would have
38:33:00
really sucked but then we would have
38:35:00
known and we would have figured out what
38:37:00
the next thing is we would have gone out
38:38:00
to another ten houses we would have
38:40:00
whatever we would have done we would
38:41:00
have had the information and been able
38:43:00
to react to it I think the major problem
38:45:00
is not having the information but having
38:48:00
the instinct to react anyway and the
38:50:00
only thing that you can do at that point
38:52:00
is is get anxious and curl up on a couch
38:54:00
which is not it's just it's not a
38:56:00
purposeful action no that's great well
39:05:00
the good part is is that you know you
39:07:00
guys both knew that you had something
39:09:00
good you had a good book you know you
39:10:00
had the idea it was written well so you
39:13:00
knew but it's still you know it's still
39:15:00
that unknown as Jason says but you knew
39:18:00
it was gonna happen I did yeah I knew I
39:25:00
mean I knew that we had I knew that we
39:27:00
had a great book I knew that you know
39:30:00
you know that it had enormous potential
39:33:00
it's really hard it's really hard not
39:36:00
having the information right that's
39:38:00
that's the thing when you're when you're
39:40:00
waiting for feedback especially when
39:43:00
you've invested
39:44:00
so much time and so much passion and so
39:47:00
much of yourself into something and you
39:50:00
believe it you really believe in it and
39:52:00
it's you know it's already been
39:53:00
rewritten many times you know I mean I
39:56:00
felt it felt really good about about the
39:58:00
product felt really good about it
40:00:00
and so it's just hard it's hard having
40:03:00
that that period of not yeah is there a
40:09:00
is there a certain chapter or part of
40:12:00
the book that you're really super proud
40:13:00
of that you like more not that you like
40:15:00
more but it's something that really
40:16:00
sticks out of your mind
40:18:00
yeah oh that's a good question Jen yeah
40:23:00
well I mentioned it I mentioned it
40:25:00
earlier I love the scene with the remote
40:28:00
control vibrator we basically so so one
40:32:00
of the things that we tried to do is you
40:35:00
know so we have these two people every
40:37:00
week they meet they have sexual
40:39:00
rendezvous and we tried to kind of throw
40:42:00
various challenges at them so so each
40:45:00
time that they are intimate they're
40:48:00
dealing with some kind of situation
40:51:00
either there's something like this
40:54:00
vibrator involved I think one time we
40:58:00
have we have a scene in which they're in
41:00:00
a hotel and suddenly this like just like
41:03:00
massive dessert cart rolls in and how to
41:08:00
integrate that into what's happening you
41:12:00
know we've got one chapter that's
41:13:00
basically all about kissing right so
41:15:00
they're they're kind of they're kind of
41:17:00
breaking that down and so that was
41:21:00
really fun to kind of you know invent
41:23:00
these various challenges and then to
41:25:00
figure out like as writers like how are
41:27:00
we going to have them respond in ways
41:30:00
that feel like real and truthful that
41:33:00
are also funny so yeah so that writing
41:37:00
writing those parts were really fun and
41:39:00
then also just you know some of my
41:42:00
favorite parts of the book so so Jason
41:44:00
and I you know we've been wheel it me
41:45:00
both we live in New York we've been in
41:47:00
New York media for a long time there's
41:49:00
some crazy stuff that happens I mean the
41:52:00
parties even even post recession the
41:54:00
parties that people
41:56:00
throw the personalities the ways in
41:59:00
which you know you you just meet a lot
42:02:00
of larger-than-life figures and the
42:06:00
wealth that's that you see thrown around
42:08:00
and and we have kind of been you know
42:10:00
we've been able to participate in some
42:12:00
of that we've been able to kind of watch
42:14:00
it we laugh at it but we were really
42:17:00
able to put it into the book and kind of
42:19:00
skewer it and that was just that was
42:21:00
really fun so I think you know I think
42:23:00
anybody who's interested in kind of like
42:25:00
how the world of magazines you know what
42:29:00
what is kind of happening behind the
42:30:00
scenes we basically put all the dirt
42:33:00
into the cult in this book so that was
42:36:00
just it was just really fun and really
42:38:00
cathartic to be able to do that yeah
42:41:00
yeah that's true right and and yeah and
42:44:00
then also we also put in echoes of
42:48:00
people we have encountered which which
42:50:00
was a lot of fun as well you know I I
42:52:00
was thinking one of the things that I
42:54:00
think always got me most excited is um
42:57:00
so we really as we were writing this we
43:00:00
always felt like you know this should be
43:02:00
this should be like a movie or a TV show
43:04:00
it's what's what people always told us
43:05:00
and we were we really wanted to take our
43:08:00
best swing at that and and so I was
43:11:00
always really excited when we came up
43:13:00
with an idea for just a scene or the way
43:16:00
that something would conclude or they
43:17:00
way they would roll out where I could I
43:19:00
could see it cinematically as well or
43:21:00
I'm like this is if this thing gets
43:23:00
turned into a TV show like this scene is
43:25:00
going to just be done verbatim in the TV
43:28:00
show right like we just we've envisioned
43:30:00
it in the right way the pacing is right
43:32:00
like I really love that because I I am I
43:34:00
don't know you know now that I've spent
43:35:00
all this time with entrepreneurs I was I
43:37:00
always think about everything is
43:38:00
building upon itself you don't just like
43:40:00
write a book to write the book right you
43:42:00
like write the book to make the TV show
43:43:00
which then gets you the contract to
43:45:00
write the next book like everything has
43:46:00
to build so so I was really excited when
43:49:00
we would do that kind of stuff and and
43:51:00
indeed we sold the option for the TV
43:53:00
show which does not mean that it'll
43:55:00
become a TV show the way that this works
43:58:00
in the industry is that a production
44:01:00
company or in our case to production
44:04:00
companies that partner together
44:06:00
basically purchase the ability to
44:10:00
the rights to package it together and
44:12:00
try to sell it to a network so now we
44:13:00
have you know we have these production
44:15:00
companies that have paid us a decent
44:17:00
amount of money to to have the rights to
44:20:00
do that and they're gonna find a
44:21:00
showrunner and try to sell it and we'll
44:22:00
see and you know the odds are of course
44:24:00
against us on this because it's a
44:25:00
competitive industry but I feel like we
44:28:00
we at least we we fulfilled the mission
44:30:00
all right we like made the book
44:32:00
cinematic and somebody recognized that
44:33:00
and are gonna try to turn it into
44:35:00
something that's very satisfying what a
44:37:00
great feeling there's no doubt I I think
44:40:00
that's awesome that's what I was
44:41:00
thinking when you guys were explaining
44:42:00
the book I kept seeing a two and a TV
44:45:00
show or in a series or a movie I kept
44:47:00
saying like this really sounds like it
44:49:00
would be interesting on the big screen
44:51:00
that's how I felt yeah well thank you
44:53:00
thank you we've I mean we're we hope to
44:56:00
see it on the big or small stream no
45:04:00
that's awesome I mean we talked a little
45:06:00
bit about the work obviously it's just
45:07:00
the overall of the different styles and
45:10:00
things that happen to happen I mean a
45:12:00
book sounds super interesting I hope
45:14:00
that our viewers are getting this that
45:16:00
you know it isn't just something that
45:19:00
happens overnight obviously you guys
45:21:00
have spent years doing this you have
45:22:00
other books you you have to have a team
45:24:00
together to do this I think it's so cool
45:26:00
that you know it's coming to fruition
45:28:00
and you guys get to play it out and see
45:31:00
how it comes together
45:32:00
I mean it's so cool that you're doing
45:33:00
that yeah it's that it's definitely
45:36:00
exciting and I mean I think you know I
45:38:00
think the goal and this is the goal of
45:40:00
anything that you create you know you
45:42:00
want the final product you want it to
45:44:00
seem like it was effortless effortless
45:46:00
like it just kind of appeared out of
45:48:00
thin air and that's really you know
45:51:00
that's the goal right is that you pick
45:53:00
up this book and you and you're reading
45:57:00
it and you miss your subway stop because
45:58:00
you're so absorbed and we've had that
46:01:00
actually already you know a few early
46:03:00
copies that we've sent out we've gotten
46:05:00
that feedback which is really really
46:07:00
really amazing but of course you know
46:10:00
we're Jason and I you know because
46:13:00
because being writers entrepreneurial in
46:16:00
this way like it is such a struggle like
46:19:00
we really want to go out of our way to
46:21:00
you know let everybody know like it's a
46:24:00
hard process and it's a long process and
46:26:00
it's it's a marathon not a race but you
46:30:00
can get to the point where you have this
46:32:00
product that seems like you just snap
46:34:00
your fingers and it appeared it's just
46:37:00
it takes a lot of work to get there ya
46:40:00
know that and it's applicable to the
46:43:00
inventor world entrepreneurs right
46:44:00
alright Jason I mean it sounds like
46:46:00
we're talking about a product like you
46:47:00
said earlier we are talking about a
46:49:00
product every right I mean that's the
46:51:00
thing like it's it's it is uh it is a
46:54:00
creative pursuit but at the end of the
46:56:00
day it's it's a product right if we
46:58:00
wanted it to just be a creative pursuit
46:59:00
not a product then we would have written
47:01:00
it for ourselves and performed it in our
47:04:00
living room and that would have been the
47:05:00
end of it but instead it's a product and
47:07:00
that means that we have to think about
47:09:00
commercial considerations and we have to
47:12:00
you know it we have we may have had an
47:15:00
idea we may have been in love with it
47:17:00
but then we heard from a whole bunch of
47:18:00
agents that it wasn't right and the way
47:21:00
that Jen was explaining that the last
47:23:00
third of the book had to be rewritten
47:24:00
and we had to say okay well we liked
47:26:00
those ideas but they're not right for
47:27:00
the marketplace so goodbye and we're
47:30:00
gonna do it again and you know you can't
47:32:00
be precious and I actually I think that
47:34:00
that I think that the greatest strength
47:36:00
that Jen and I both have as writers is
47:40:00
is that we are not precious
47:42:00
you know like for whatever you know
47:44:00
whatever whatever are kind of skill sets
47:47:00
that we've built up and are in you know
47:49:00
when we're both you know we both we both
47:52:00
very we've been fortunate to have a lot
47:54:00
of success in different ways and doing
47:56:00
different things but like but I honestly
47:58:00
think that the just the most important
48:00:00
thing is that we're not precious that we
48:02:00
if we work with people we you know we
48:05:00
understand we understand who the boss is
48:06:00
okay so if you know if if Jan is writing
48:10:00
for the New York Times or if I'm writing
48:13:00
for some other editor and the editor
48:15:00
says they need something we don't like
48:16:00
fight them you know you don't say like
48:18:00
yeah but I'm know right you know like
48:19:00
you have to understand what the
48:21:00
marketplace is and and you have to work
48:23:00
to that market and and every marketplace
48:25:00
is different right like we had we had a
48:27:00
lot more say in our in our book than we
48:30:00
would if we were writing for somebody
48:32:00
else's publication but but even still
48:34:00
when when
48:35:00
like our publisher would would ask us
48:37:00
for a change or would you know would
48:38:00
raise something um you know sometimes we
48:41:00
would push back but often the
48:42:00
conversation would be okay let's listen
48:44:00
to let's listen to people who have gone
48:46:00
through this many times before and and
48:48:00
ask the most important question which is
48:50:00
what will help the book sell what will
48:53:00
help this book sell because this because
48:54:00
the end of the day this is a product I
48:56:00
mean I like you know I
48:57:00
Jen and I slightly we feel differently
48:59:00
about this and that Jen Jen feels I
49:01:00
think a little more passionate on the
49:02:00
creative side and I I do too but somehow
49:05:00
I've also become the like this is a
49:07:00
product guy probably because I just
49:09:00
spend so much time with entrepreneurs
49:10:00
now but um but it is it's really it's a
49:12:00
product and so I you know like what's
49:15:00
gonna help it sell and also for that
49:16:00
matter you know like for example we were
49:18:00
dealing with the cover we went through a
49:19:00
whole bunch of different versions with
49:20:00
the cover and and it's like you can push
49:24:00
and push and push and push back and you
49:25:00
can like dig your heels in but at some
49:26:00
point you also have to recognize that
49:28:00
the publishing team has to be excited
49:31:00
about this book because they're the ones
49:32:00
that are gonna go out and sell it so if
49:34:00
so if we like let's say we wanted
49:37:00
something totally different and we said
49:38:00
that we it has to be our way because
49:40:00
it's our book well ok they'll publish it
49:42:00
with our thing but if the sales team
49:44:00
isn't excited about it then that's gonna
49:45:00
harm our sales so like at some point
49:46:00
yeah I mean we
49:48:00
there was a major retailer that is
49:50:00
interested in carrying the book and they
49:52:00
actually wanted to change to the cover
49:54:00
Wow and so we you know we we have we
49:59:00
definitely had some stipulations but but
50:01:00
we ultimately you know made it made a
50:03:00
change within the realm of what they
50:05:00
wanted because we recognize it's a
50:07:00
practical consideration right we want
50:09:00
that retailer to to carry our product um
50:13:00
you know they're not they're not they
50:16:00
don't have any say over the like
50:18:00
creative content you know that's inside
50:20:00
of it but but it's a marketing
50:22:00
consideration they know their audience
50:24:00
and we want their audience so so that's
50:27:00
a compromise that you know we were very
50:29:00
willing to me mm-hmm yeah very well said
50:32:00
both you guys I mean if the book isn't
50:34:00
available for people to read then then
50:37:00
you know they're not gonna get that now
50:39:00
is that information that helps so the
50:41:00
cover you make a concession and it's out
50:43:00
there and it helps everyone I think it's
50:45:00
it's just it is it's frustrating but I
50:47:00
mean the people that know though
50:49:00
guys that know I mean like you said so I
50:51:00
agree with you he's got you gotta make
50:53:00
some little concessions to to make it to
50:56:00
the big time there's no doubt about it
50:57:00
it's so cool so so real quick I mean I
51:00:00
know I've kept you guys on longer
51:01:00
because this has been so interesting how
51:03:00
we're comparing that's been fun
51:06:00
where's gonna be the places that people
51:08:00
can go and get the book oh well any I
51:12:00
mean anywhere
51:13:00
hopefully that major retailer we haven't
51:15:00
gotten word back from them yet but you
51:17:00
know it's not October yet so I mean
51:20:00
first of all obviously Amazon or
51:22:00
anything online but also walk into your
51:25:00
local bookstore and ask for it it should
51:27:00
be you know I mean wherever books are
51:29:00
sold
51:33:00
download it on your e-reader whatever
51:36:00
platform you're using it will be
51:38:00
available audio Jason do the audio voice
51:44:00
did Jason do the audio you know what
51:47:00
we're both doing it oh so so they hired
51:50:00
they hired and they hired an actor in
51:52:00
where is he somewhere in the south we
51:55:00
listen we listen to his like tryout and
51:57:00
it was really great so he's doing he's
51:59:00
doing the the he's really doing the book
52:01:00
but then the columns that the characters
52:04:00
write are in the book so Jen and I are
52:06:00
going into the studio in in about two
52:09:00
weeks and we're voicing it so I'll voice
52:10:00
the milk characters columns in shield
52:13:00
voice the female characters called and
52:14:00
so yeah so we'll be in there so yeah you
52:17:00
said you know I mean basically anywhere
52:18:00
it's called mr. nice guy if you want to
52:21:00
if you want to go to our website to
52:23:00
learn more it's mr. nice guy novel
52:25:00
that's mr not Mis DRM our mr. nice guy
52:28:00
novel calm gives you a little bit more
52:31:00
about the book and then various ways
52:34:00
that you can buy it and you know we
52:36:00
would really love we we would also
52:37:00
really really really love to hear from
52:39:00
people you can you can pretty easily
52:41:00
find how to contact us just google our
52:44:00
names and you'll find our websites with
52:45:00
our addresses or or maybe you can
52:46:00
include it in the show notes you know
52:48:00
and and we'd you know we'd really love
52:51:00
to hear from you yeah and the other
52:53:00
thing that I would stress is that if if
52:55:00
when you purchased a book I'm not even
52:57:00
to say if when you purchase the book
52:58:00
leave some reviews on the book go to
53:01:00
Amazon wherever you can leave
53:03:00
views for these guys the reviews really
53:04:00
help they'll help other people that may
53:06:00
be on the fence but they'll also help
53:08:00
rank the book because it's super
53:09:00
important to leave those reviews
53:10:00
that's totally sure appreciate you so
53:14:00
alright guys well listen it's been
53:16:00
awesome having you on today I really
53:18:00
would like to follow up and catch up and
53:20:00
see what's happening with the book
53:21:00
because I think it's really all I do
53:23:00
that you guys are both doing the book
53:25:00
and and and they're creative together
53:27:00
and really work together on it and I
53:29:00
just love that it was picked up and how
53:32:00
hopes to see it on the big screen as we
53:33:00
talked about earlier so do wait no we'll
53:36:00
invite you to the launch party that
53:39:00
sounds good we listed thanks a lot being
53:42:00
on today I appreciate your time I know
53:45:00
you guys are both busy and will look for
53:47:00
the book wherever books are sold as
53:49:00
jason said earlier and we'll be pushing
53:52:00
this episode out several times
53:53:00
especially close to the launch we're
53:55:00
gonna really try to push this up and and
53:57:00
get some people out there to to get the
53:59:00
book going wonderful thank you so much
54:02:00
pharmacist yeah super appreciate it
54:04:00
oh thank you guys thanks for being on
54:05:00
we'll all talk to you guys soon and to
54:08:00
all listeners thanks for being on and
54:09:00
we'll catch you guys next time on
54:10:00
inventors launchpad network