New Director of The United States Patent and Trademark Office Andrei Iancu Discusses Taking on His New Role And His Objectives Moving forward

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In his role as the Under Secretary of Commerce for Intellectual Property and Director of the United States Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO), Andrei Iancu provides leadership and oversight to one of the largest intellectual property offices in the world, with more than 12,000 employees and an annual budget of over $3 billion. He also serves as the principal advisor to the Secretary of Commerce on domestic and international intellectual property policy matters.

Prior to joining the USPTO, Mr. Iancu was the Managing Partner at Irell & Manella LLP, where his practice focused on intellectual property litigation. Mr. Iancu appeared in a variety of high-profile matters in front of the USPTO, U.S. district courts, the Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit, and the U.S. International Trade Commission. He has represented clients across the technical and scientific spectra, including those associated with medical devices, genetic testing, therapeutics, the internet, telephony, TV broadcasting, video game systems, and computer peripherals.

Mr. Iancu has also taught patent law at the UCLA School of Law, and has written and spoken publicly on a variety of intellectual property issues. Prior to his legal career, Mr. Iancu was an engineer at Hughes Aircraft Company.

Throughout his career, many organizations have recognized Mr. Iancu for his work. Among his legal community accolades, the Daily Journal, California Lawyer magazine, Los Angeles Business Journal, Chambers USA, Best Lawyers in America, and many others have acknowledged his expertise in commercial litigation and intellectual property law. Mr. Iancu has also been the recipient of the Patent and Trademark Office Society 36th Annual Rossman Award, the Hughes Aircraft Malcolm R. Currie Innovation Award, and the Melville B. Nimmer Copyright Award.

The Inventors Launchpad Network – Is proud to present Tuttle Innovation, Co-Hosted by Warren Tuttle and Carmine Denisco. Warren has served as President of the Board of Directors for the UIA since 2010, and is a prolific speaker at inventor clubs and industry tradeshows, where he shares his his extensive knowledge and expertise to help educate aspiring inventors, patent holders and product developers. Warren wants to educate inventors using stories from the industries most influential people.
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Podcast Notes

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from the inventors Launchpad network in
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sunny Clearwater Florida
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this is the Tuttle innovation show where
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we seek out historical facts on
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innovation and entrepreneurship and all
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out awesome inventions while introducing
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you to the people and companies creating
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the next big thing now here's our host
0:30
mr. Warren title hi everyone and welcome
0:33
to the vendors Launchpad Network I am
0:36
calm and in Disco your co-hosts for
0:38
today's show of total innovation with me
0:41
I have the president of Tuttle
0:43
innovation the man with the plan the man
0:46
who is helping hundreds hundreds
0:48
probably thousands of inventors I mean
0:49
this guy is all over this place he's got
0:51
his thing around the button his name
0:53
Warren Tuttle hey Warren you over there
0:55
I am that's cool man hey listen man was
1:00
that a great interview I don't know he
1:02
listeners if you are listening back to
1:03
back but we had Josh from from bunch of
1:07
balloons on was that the cool it's not a
1:08
cool winter for you that guy's awesome
1:09
right no it's great it's great to really
1:13
hear in-depth from a real inventor and I
1:17
was I was touched by the amount of work
1:20
that he put in to develop a bunch of
1:22
balloons and really the difference
1:23
sometime between succeeding and failing
1:25
is that that extra push so to speak in
1:28
football terms it's getting into the end
1:30
zone instead of kicking a field goal
1:32
that takes a lot a lot of hard work at
1:34
the end to make it work so his story was
1:37
terrific yeah it was you know it's what
1:38
touches me about and a lot of inventors
1:41
stories Warren you probably hear this is
1:42
that it seems like they're always very
1:44
close to the end of their rope or the
1:47
end of time that they're allotted you
1:48
know their wife or their husband are
1:50
saying listen man you got to do
1:51
something with this idea or you know
1:52
kill it and it always seems like that's
1:54
when they really rise above and make
1:57
things happen you can and you need a
1:59
little bit of good fortune he described
2:01
how he that's about solving problems
2:03
that's where a lot of good idea to start
2:05
and the beginning yeah and then the
2:08
question is is that problem big enough
2:09
for enough folks to make it a commercial
2:11
success
2:12
but I gotta have a little good fortune I
2:15
probably worked with over 200,000
2:18
product ideas and inventors over the
2:19
years and oh that's it
2:22
and there's you know a couple thousand
2:24
of them and then I you know run down and
2:26
had a lot of interest in but you need a
2:28
little bit your back sometimes and stuck
2:31
with it so good Rick yeah no no and
2:35
that's what I love about the show we're
2:36
doing I mean we're getting to bring
2:37
people we're getting to bring ideas
2:39
success stories even people are have
2:41
issues and overcome things with the
2:44
amount of people that you run into that
2:45
I run into it's nice to be able to tell
2:46
their stories let people know what's
2:48
going on and it's it's nice to have a
2:51
happy ending here and there it really is
2:53
I mean you know that there's a light at
2:55
the end of the tunnel for a lot of
2:56
inventors and I know our our next guest
2:58
is is a big purports in it about that he
3:02
really helps out inventors a lot so why
3:04
don't you go ahead and if you want to
3:05
bring on our next guest will will give
3:07
him a shot on hot seat yeah thanks I'm
3:10
really pleased to introduce gene Quinn
3:12
Gene's a longtime friend of known teams
3:15
he's 20 years now in a real big part of
3:18
the inventor community really speak for
3:22
himself in a second but he's not only a
3:24
patent attorney but he hosts the best
3:27
intellectual property blog in the
3:29
country called IP watchdog I know it's I
3:31
read it daily and I know that everybody
3:34
the US Patent Office reads it and I know
3:35
that everybody in our community reads it
3:37
so we had a lot of questions for gene
3:39
but gene welcome to the show thanks a
3:42
lot Warren it's a pleasure to be here
3:43
with you here today
3:45
well thanks so much now you're down in
3:47
the DC area right yeah just outside of
3:51
DC not too far from the the mêlée that
3:54
is our nation's capital well that's one
3:57
of the reasons there and you know what's
4:00
going on but before we talk a little bit
4:02
about IP watched our listeners a little
4:05
bit about you like where where you
4:08
started maybe law school and then how
4:11
you got started in and how you got IP
4:12
watch luck started well you know it's
4:15
sort of an interesting story it's a I
4:17
went went to law school back in the
4:20
early 1990s and when I got out of law
4:24
school I did general litigation for why
4:26
they decided I didn't want to do that
4:27
and I went back I was an electrical
4:29
engineer so I always knew my fallback
4:31
plan was to be a patent attorney so and
4:33
that was why I went to law school and so
4:36
then I I just got into patent law and
4:38
I've been a fan attorney for 20 years
4:40
now it's hard hard to believe but uh and
4:43
along the way I got an LLM which is a
4:46
masters of law degree and a lot of the
4:49
guys I was with we were this is during
4:52
the dot-com era you know and everybody
4:54
had a plan to become the next
4:56
billionaire so our plan involved the
5:00
Internet right you know it involved what
5:03
we knew which was intellectual property
5:04
and we were gonna value stocks and
5:06
companies based on their IP portfolios
5:08
and so forth so I bought the domain name
5:11
IP watchdog and you know little by
5:13
little other people had better offers
5:15
and got to do but other things and I'm
5:17
left holding the domain name and I just
5:20
was writing and I figure well I'll just
5:22
put stuff up on the internet and then as
5:25
I'm doing that a couple years later I
5:27
realized people were just reading it
5:29
without me promoting it they were just
5:31
finding it and then I thought to myself
5:33
you know I could probably make this a
5:35
business and little by little I
5:37
converted it into a business and for a
5:39
lot of time it was a labor of love it's
5:41
you know in the in the early days
5:44
whenever you starting whether you're
5:45
inventing or starting a restaurant
5:47
whatever business it is you're it's it's
5:50
more gotta be loved because if you're if
5:53
you don't love it it's not gonna go
5:55
anywhere because there's a lot more
5:57
trials and tribulations at the beginning
5:59
and then little by little start showing
6:02
some successes and you know here we are
6:05
we're gonna celebrate our 19th year
6:08
online this fall that's great that's
6:12
always ahead of sound effects machine
6:13
like that's a lot I mean that's a law
6:18
that's a lot yeah yeah and really to me
6:22
gene what you've if I could admire you
6:25
for saying you built up so much
6:26
credibility you know because not only
6:28
are you building a business financially
6:30
and you're an entrepreneur but in your
6:32
particular profession you know
6:34
credibility is the essence of it well
6:37
you know and I think I think that that's
6:38
that's right you know and I and and and
6:40
that's funny that you say that because
6:41
right now I guess I'm sort of the news
6:44
media although I don't know what I am
6:46
you know and and it's there's really no
6:49
game plan to figure this out because
6:51
yeah I think I'm sort of going this
6:53
alone because I don't think we're a blog
6:55
anymore we haven't been a blog for a
6:57
long time and but I don't really
7:00
consider myself a reporter because I'm a
7:02
substantive expert and I really think
7:04
that's gonna be the way of the future
7:06
and I'm surprised we haven't gotten
7:07
there yet but trust is you know is
7:11
everything and I remember just an aside
7:14
a few years ago I wrote an article about
7:17
the Patent Office and I and I got it
7:20
wrong I just got you know the stats I
7:22
was seeing online were well I had
7:25
information to back what I was saying up
7:28
and it turned out that the information
7:29
was incorrect and I got a call from the
7:32
Patent Office and they told me and gave
7:34
me and we worked it out and then I
7:36
published a complete retraction and
7:38
apology to the examiner I wrote about
7:40
and you know and I don't know you know I
7:43
don't like bearing those types of things
7:45
on page D 36 yeah you know if I make a
7:49
mistake on page a1 I'm gonna apologize
7:52
on page a1 absolutely and that is who
7:56
you are you know you're you're you're
7:59
really on top of it and you know it's
8:01
funny that you say that about the news
8:03
maybe because you are the person that
8:06
sort of covers and brings to light a lot
8:09
of things because let's face it in
8:10
America you know most Americans are not
8:13
really paying attention to what's going
8:14
on the US Patent Office they're you know
8:16
there's so many other movements we've
8:18
got me to movement today we have you
8:20
know lives matters we've got you know
8:22
all types of things going on we have
8:24
football players kneeling at the anthem
8:25
I mean these are things that are sort of
8:27
that everybody wants to write about but
8:29
you're you're you seem to be the only
8:31
ones really covering IP yeah I mean I
8:36
guess you know there's there's others
8:38
that are that are doing it and they
8:39
write you know like descriptive stuff
8:41
about what actually happens and you know
8:43
this is what this judge decided or you
8:45
know this is what the Patent Office is
8:47
doing but I try and go like another step
8:50
further and say okay missus
8:52
it means or at least this is what I
8:53
think it means and and I always try and
8:56
do it fact-based
8:57
and what I've done from the you know not
9:00
that very beginning but pretty early on
9:02
is saying look I'm gonna tell you what I
9:05
think in my opinion and I'm not gonna
9:06
hold back because then if you agree with
9:09
me great but if you disagree with me
9:11
hopefully it will crystallize what you
9:13
believe having you know counterpoint to
9:18
consider but your columns are very
9:22
readable and silver Steves sometimes
9:24
when you have guest writers especially
9:26
you know patent attorneys it gets a
9:28
little technical I have a little hard
9:30
time right yeah I didn't know that
9:34
well could you always write like that or
9:37
did you have to train yourself to learn
9:39
how to express yourself well you know
9:41
it's funny even one thing that I did
9:44
actually and I guess I was doing this at
9:46
the sort of the beginning of our early
9:49
days I he watched I I was actually also
9:51
writing a column in patent world which
9:54
is largely a publication in the UK but
9:57
had worldwide distribution and I had 800
10:00
words they would sometimes let me go to
10:02
900 but it was you know they wanted 800
10:06
and maybe a couple more no more school
10:09
system of the youth so believe me if you
10:11
went over and they whack you yeah if you
10:14
if you went over the the pictures had to
10:16
be smaller and you know the artists
10:18
would give you grief and you know I mean
10:21
so I had to really train myself to
10:24
convey a message in a much shorter you
10:27
know and there's that old saying Warren
10:29
if you are you familiar with it it's
10:30
Mark Twain we wrote this letter and he
10:33
apologized in advance for how lengthy it
10:36
was because he didn't have time to make
10:37
it shorter and it's so true writing
10:42
something sure to convey a message is
10:45
hard you know and I think I'm getting
10:48
better at it but you know I saw
10:50
sometimes I go back and read some of the
10:51
stuff I wrote a while ago and it's like
10:54
oh my god I wish I could just delete
10:56
that well you know at the heart of
10:58
things is your passion and I've
11:03
considered
11:04
self passion and you and I had a great
11:05
interview a couple years ago that you
11:06
went on for days I would love to just
11:13
shift gears a little bit and just get
11:15
your thoughts a little bit but what does
11:18
innovation mean to you today it's part
11:21
in American society and just some
11:25
overview and then maybe we can get a
11:26
little bit in the history because I know
11:27
you don't well I think you know
11:30
innovation I think is one of those words
11:32
that gets thrown about an awful lot you
11:36
know and especially you could be going
11:38
to Washington DC and and everybody wants
11:40
to use the word innovation and I don't
11:43
think most people really know what the
11:44
word means and and I also think you know
11:47
it's no great surprise that it shouldn't
11:49
surprise anybody that over the last 10
11:51
or 12 years the patent system has been
11:54
under attack and it's been under attack
11:55
by people who are using patents or using
11:59
technology and not really developing
12:01
their own technology or maybe said in a
12:05
slightly different way they're
12:06
johnny-come-lately you know there's a
12:08
real innovator who has done it first and
12:10
now somebody else is wanting to use it
12:13
and they don't want to pay for it now I
12:16
get not liking to pay for stuff yeah you
12:19
know but it you know so it is what it is
12:22
but so what they haven't started to do
12:24
over the last 10 years is use the word
12:26
innovate and innovation to mean bringing
12:29
a product to market and that's the
12:33
genesis of this whole patent troll issue
12:35
you're a patent troll in their mind and
12:39
by their I mean the people who are
12:40
trying to weaken the patent system if
12:43
you don't sell something in the
12:44
marketplace if you don't go that last
12:46
mile and bring it to the consumer you
12:49
did not innovate you're not an innovator
12:51
it's not an innovation but if you
12:53
actually look at the definition of
12:55
innovation that's not what innovation is
12:57
I mean innovation is the front end it's
13:00
not the back end it's not to say the
13:03
last mile isn't important in the last
13:04
mile is incredibly important and maybe
13:07
we could talk about that with the whole
13:08
history thing here in a minute but the
13:10
last mile is important but that's not
13:12
innovation innovation is doing something
13:14
new you know selling to a cust
13:17
is not new I mean that's been no I kind
13:20
of describe it as some innovation is
13:21
disruptive that's the stuff that really
13:23
changes our lives you know and some of
13:25
it is incremental right right
13:28
III run on innovation roads for a number
13:30
of companies and sometimes you know this
13:31
thing they slap a new color on it it's
13:33
it's innovative and you're right
13:35
anything that gets on the Shelf now that
13:38
looks different is innovation and we
13:40
know that's not really the case no
13:42
that's that's just not what innovation
13:44
means it's not what it was ever intended
13:46
to mean and you know and just back to
13:49
the patent troll thing there to wrap it
13:51
up for it for a second if you actually
13:53
stopped and thought about the definition
13:54
that most of those people are using
13:56
Apple is a patent troll now how absurd
13:59
is that yeah I mean because Apple
14:01
doesn't make anything they don't I mean
14:05
they innovate then create they make
14:07
things new on paper and they design
14:11
things new which is innovation so they
14:14
innovate and then everything that they
14:16
sell is made in China and that's where
14:19
that's why I better come in because the
14:22
really wonderful inventors that are
14:24
hanging way out there in a limb are
14:26
really disruptive you know and there's a
14:29
lot of failure in disruption right I
14:31
mean let's just you got to take a lot of
14:33
shots before you get one right and
14:35
they're the ones that are really speak
14:38
for a second like if those people go
14:40
away are you gonna count on big
14:43
companies they really well as you know
14:47
there's there's only a couple big
14:49
companies actually do innovate you know
14:51
and and and there's and that shouldn't
14:53
shock anybody right because one thing
14:55
you're just saying and let's just expand
14:57
on that and talk about that foresight is
14:59
innovation requires risk and big
15:02
companies are in a position where they
15:04
are risk averse
15:05
you know the CEOs for these companies
15:08
are getting paid based on whether the
15:09
stock price is going up right you know
15:12
and and if you swing for the fences and
15:14
you miss that's a recipe for stock price
15:16
going down and you know what culture
15:19
usually permeates the whole group from
15:21
the top down because then mill
15:22
management also doesn't want to take
15:24
risks because it's not good for their
15:25
careers
15:26
oh no I mean middle management there I
15:28
mean unless
15:29
now middle managers that take risk are
15:31
the few people that are risers you know
15:35
the but the 99% of them plus are the
15:38
ones that are gonna always be middle
15:40
managers I mean Dilbert's funny for a
15:42
reason right I mean that's middle
15:44
management America nobody wants to take
15:47
responsibility because if it goes wrong
15:48
they don't want to have their head on
15:51
the chopping block and they're totally
15:53
fine with their position and so they
15:55
don't care whether they get the
15:57
accolades if it does if it went well you
16:00
know you know they're afraid so they're
16:02
risk-averse and innovation just doesn't
16:05
happen that way innovation happens when
16:07
you're swinging for the fences so let's
16:09
go back to the beginning of the country
16:10
if we can yes I had a chance to go over
16:14
to Mount Vernon a couple weeks ago and
16:17
saw the grist mill where the George
16:19
Washington it was the third path never
16:21
issued and I guess Washington liked it
16:23
so much he licensed it yeah it's a great
16:27
story I mean selling George Washington
16:33
was the up until President Trump was the
16:37
richest president we've ever had you
16:41
know if you if you normalized them out
16:42
of his wealth into you know whatever the
16:44
dollar value of the day was money on
16:47
whiskey than anything out yeah yeah he
16:49
made he was the supplier for the
16:52
colonies you know so so the interesting
17:00
thing about that particular patent is
17:02
back in the day when the patent system
17:04
first our first thing is George
17:06
Washington's first State of the Union
17:08
address was about a thousand words and
17:11
he spent a hundred of those words
17:13
imploring Congress to pass the Patent
17:16
Act okay so that that's and that was the
17:18
third act of Congress that they actually
17:20
passed and the number three is sort of
17:23
interesting because then it comes up
17:25
again because back when the patents were
17:28
first being issued
17:29
most of the early patents that were
17:32
issued were signed by two presidents
17:34
because the President had to sign them
17:38
and then there was this panel of patent
17:41
examiner's who was May
17:43
Thomas Jefferson was one of the first
17:45
panels you know he became a president
17:47
and so and so forth so George Washington
17:51
had to countersign the patent before it
17:54
was issued so the third patent had ever
17:56
issued he's reading it you know before
17:59
he signs it obviously could give because
18:03
it relates to gristmills and he owns a
18:05
grist mill you know and so he summons
18:08
the inventor to his residence and rather
18:12
you know in Iowa I tell stories like
18:14
anybody was ever gonna get away with
18:16
stealing a patent or stealing in
18:18
detention it was the guy we were gonna
18:20
be willing to make the king of our
18:22
country I mean we offered him to be king
18:25
you know and so he summons the inventor
18:28
and says like I want to pay for this and
18:29
it's installed in the grist mill and if
18:33
you've never had the opportunity to
18:34
visit it still works today they'll turn
18:36
it on and it works you know and so
18:39
that's a great story now the reason that
18:42
that story is great is because
18:43
Washington and in Madison who wrote the
18:46
Constitution and and others but those
18:48
two in particular really understood that
18:51
their what they were doing was creating
18:53
a patent system that was anti British
18:56
the British patent system was very
18:59
expensive and only for corporations not
19:01
for individuals so you just as an
19:03
individual couldn't afford it but they
19:05
wanted to create a US patent system
19:07
where the fees were very low an average
19:10
person could afford them and they could
19:12
apply for patents and be granted patents
19:14
now what that's significant because you
19:17
they had to know that those people would
19:20
not have the money and wherewithal in
19:22
business smarts and acumen to
19:25
manufacture and sell to consumers so as
19:30
we see Washington licensing that third
19:32
patent that was the plan all along is to
19:35
get the masses with all their great
19:37
ideas and inventions to patent them and
19:41
in license them to people like
19:43
Washington and others who had ongoing
19:46
operations that could actually take them
19:47
the last mile it sounds like trolls you
19:50
know if you listen to the rhetoric today
19:53
it does sound an awful lot like
19:55
but that was the very purpose and if you
19:57
actually look at Marshall Phelps who
19:58
he's uh was that one of the guys
20:01
responsible for saving IBM by creating
20:04
there and he's done it he's researched
20:10
this whole thing an awful lot and he
20:12
says that 80% of the inventors in early
20:18
America didn't even have a high school
20:19
education Wow
20:22
you know so obviously these people are
20:24
people that were not going to do the
20:29
last mile they were not going to create
20:31
companies they were not going to sell
20:32
they were going to license or if they
20:35
were gonna sell they were gonna sell the
20:36
patent rights but how said okay you know
20:38
that the found in the country was
20:40
promised on this and I just finished
20:42
Hamilton and readings that perspective
20:44
on it and how they were trying to get
20:45
Mills going in New York but how
20:47
interesting that from day one in this
20:49
country he was embedded in each of each
20:51
American that they had an opportunity
20:53
right I mean I think that that really is
20:56
is you know very very significant and
20:59
and it also led to warranty you know
21:01
immigration and not to get into any of
21:03
the immigration issues for today
21:06
but what we what they did was is they
21:09
wanted to give people who were smart and
21:12
had ambition a reason to come to America
21:15
and that's what happened well well you
21:19
know what it's amazing and then I'll
21:20
just add because you know I've before
21:22
but yeah Jefferson I think was was one
21:25
of the first directors that panelist but
21:26
I know the second building built in in
21:28
DC after the White House was the patent
21:29
office right so yeah I mean in back then
21:32
and your proximity to the White House
21:36
said something yeah and the old Patent
21:39
Office is really very close to the where
21:42
the White House is you know it's over
21:44
there on the corner of FN and I think it
21:48
would be eighth or ninth Street on that
21:50
corner it's the Smithsonian National
21:52
Portrait Gallery now today okay yeah
21:56
that's the old Patent Office building
21:58
you know and yeah and it's as close to
21:59
the White House's Department of
22:02
Justice's and well now we've gone so so
22:06
closing the gap
22:07
the way you know England is what we
22:09
didn't want to be so I think some of
22:11
these tech companies should move over
22:12
there no I'm sorry having said that you
22:15
know we you you look at how the whole
22:18
patent system is developed and you you
22:22
you you and all of the innovations heard
22:25
over the years and now we're going
22:26
through today can you can you bring
22:29
yourself just being a little bit on the
22:30
recent Supreme Court ruling in oil
22:33
States and franchise and maybe explain
22:36
to our viewers what's going on here well
22:40
in 800 words or less yeah well I you
22:44
know I could do it in one sentence I can
22:47
probably doing it ones phrase but no
22:49
well wouldn't make for a very
22:51
family-friendly show you know the
22:58
Supreme Court has become more and more
23:00
interesting with patents over the last
23:05
seven or eight years you know it's
23:07
certainly over the last eight eight
23:10
years maybe a little bit longer and
23:12
increasingly they take patent rights
23:14
away now the whole oil States case was
23:17
about can the Patent Office conduct this
23:22
contest between a challenger to the
23:26
patent in the patent owner after they've
23:28
already granted the patent so can they
23:32
conduct a mini trial and is it
23:35
constitutional does that could does that
23:38
satisfy the constitutional requirements
23:42
now that in the same organization who
23:44
granted you the patent turn around take
23:46
it back away from you right and you know
23:48
the there had been some older Supreme
23:51
Court cases that said no they can't
23:53
and so without overruling without saying
23:57
they were overruling those cases they
23:59
did and so they said that they can and
24:05:00
the the whole theory up until about the
24:08:00
1980s was simply just what you said is
24:12:00
the agency that grants the patent ought
24:15:00
not to be the one that takes it away you
24:18:00
know it sets up a
24:20:00
real conflict of interests it just it
24:25:00
feels bad and looks rotten and I read
24:28:00
your article today which we will not get
24:30:00
into yeah but that's what that's what
24:33:00
you wind up getting into right you know
24:35:00
and right now what we have is that and
24:36:00
this is all about the patent trial and
24:38:00
appeal board and the P tab they are an
24:42:00
enormous ly secretive body you know and
24:45:00
even in the oil States decision and some
24:47:00
of the other decisions while the Supreme
24:48:00
Court is saying that they can do what
24:51:00
they're doing the there they do talk
24:54:00
about the shenanigans of the P tab you
24:57:00
know now at what point in time do these
24:58:00
shenanigans are the P tab cross the line
25:01:00
I mean I don't I don't know I mean some
25:04:00
of the things that are going on there
25:05:00
warrant are just I'm gonna say I mean
25:10:00
unamerican I mean it is you know these
25:12:00
are just not what you learn is a part of
25:14:00
the American justice system I mean what
25:16:00
we see is you know the latest thing I'm
25:19:00
on right now that you just met you just
25:21:00
very quickly for your listeners there
25:23:00
was a judge who dissented in a case and
25:26:00
took his position on the side of a
25:29:00
patent owner and that judge was removed
25:32:00
from the case Wow
25:34:00
without explanation now maybe there's a
25:36:00
reason maybe the judge gave it took sick
25:38:00
maybe a judge you know something
25:41:00
happened I don't know but in any other
25:43:00
court in the country when that happens
25:45:00
it gets explained you know there's
25:48:00
there's a reason you know this judge to
25:49:00
recuse himself you know this judge is on
25:52:00
leave whatever at the P tab what happens
25:55:00
is that judges disappears you know and
25:58:00
and let's see secrecy is this is awful
26:02:00
because there's already clearly a bias
26:05:00
against patent owners and now you see
26:09:00
something like that and it's like well
26:10:00
what chance does a patent on have do you
26:13:00
feel teams just expand a little bit
26:15:00
because we can't get in too much into
26:17:00
details but I know what you're saying
26:18:00
because there is a perception that you
26:21:00
know the the PTO's is not the best use
26:24:00
of independent inventors and so forth
26:26:00
but what
26:27:00
just overall just in the country it
26:30:00
seems like the narrative that's being
26:32:00
pushed forth by these very powerful tech
26:34:00
companies the large ones who will remain
26:36:00
nameless but her name Google and others
26:38:00
they they that they're in every level
26:41:00
almost not just the patents but on
26:43:00
Capitol Hill but also in the Supreme
26:45:00
Court it's like their narrative seems to
26:47:00
be the narrative that's that's driving
26:50:00
this thing these days yeah that that's
26:53:00
that's correct I mean the Google is
26:56:00
everywhere with their lobbyists I mean
26:58:00
they really are they've been
26:59:00
extraordinarily successful and they're
27:02:00
fighting an all-hands-on-deck
27:05:00
all-of-the-above approach and warren
27:09:00
it's been frustrating you know and
27:11:00
except for one one of their employees
27:13:00
leaves and takes technology with them
27:16:00
and then that's something Marshall puts
27:19:00
me yeah yeah I mean or when the Chinese
27:24:00
come and they've can't stop them from
27:26:00
you know that's gonna be when Google
27:29:00
changes our tune is is when they fight a
27:32:00
well-funded you know a government backed
27:34:00
Chinese corporation of equal size yeah
27:37:00
we thought I always thought with Google
27:38:00
and I had an interesting discussion with
27:40:00
the rep I said recently if he and
27:43:00
another patent because he's kind of a
27:44:00
supporter of them I always thought that
27:45:00
you know Google could really and some of
27:49:00
these other tech companies if they just
27:50:00
paid a fair royalty you know when it was
27:53:00
affordable into their margin structure
27:54:00
which by the way some you know when
27:56:00
these phones cost $600 you can figure
27:58:00
out how to build a small royalty into it
28:00:00
maybe you pull it that there's got to be
28:02:00
some way to have an open innovation
28:04:00
program to connect innovation innovators
28:07:00
so they make some money with the big
28:08:00
guys you know I you would think so
28:12:00
I mean it's but they I don't know I mean
28:17:00
but things like that just aren't gonna
28:21:00
happen unfortunately you know and the
28:23:00
reason is the inventors who are
28:27:00
suffering aren't telling their stories
28:30:00
well you know and I go to Capitol Hill
28:33:00
and you hear people in the staffers and
28:35:00
members of Congress they'll say well we
28:38:00
hear from the other side all the
28:40:00
I'm and they have stories and they tell
28:42:00
us everything's fine and and you're
28:45:00
saying it's not now they tell us their
28:48:00
stories and they show us their studies
28:50:00
and their reports and what is your
28:52:00
information you know and the problem has
28:55:00
been the inventors who are represented
28:58:00
by patent attorneys or litigators tell
29:00:00
them don't talk to anybody you know
29:02:00
because and they don't want them to be
29:04:00
labeled as the next patent troll or
29:07:00
targeted in the media as a patent troll
29:09:00
or you know when you're litigating
29:11:00
you're not supposed to say anything or
29:13:00
you know and there's a lot of reasons
29:15:00
for that but what it's done is its
29:16:00
created an absence of information and
29:19:00
it's important that inventors realized
29:21:00
that that absence of information is
29:23:00
being used against them because what
29:25:00
Google and all the other lobbyists who
29:27:00
are trying to weaken the patent system
29:29:00
do when they visit congressional offices
29:31:00
is say the other side has no information
29:34:00
that's why they're not providing that
29:37:00
very issue actually an interesting you
29:39:00
should say that so well it is it is
29:42:00
interesting you know where do you think
29:46:00
gee you you could put your your
29:49:00
visionary glasses upon and and we just
29:52:00
talked about maybe some natural swings
29:54:00
where it becomes in the self-interest
29:55:00
some of these lawyers companies to shift
29:57:00
but where do you see I know there's a
30:00:00
new inventor bill up on Capitol Hill now
30:02:00
there's the new director seems like he
30:04:00
gets a lot of these things so far police
30:07:00
initially where do you see things going
30:09:00
over the next couple years getting worse
30:11:00
or better for inventors well I mean
30:15:00
every time I think it can't get any
30:17:00
worse it seems to you know get worse so
30:20:00
I think the tide has started to turn but
30:24:00
it's like an aircraft carrier it's not
30:26:00
going to turn on a dime simply because
30:30:00
you're gonna see congressman eisah is
30:33:00
not going to be in the next Congress
30:34:00
because he's retiring Goodlatte is
30:38:00
retiring Smith is retiring so the houses
30:41:00
should be a lot better because the
30:43:00
people who supported a lot of these
30:44:00
really bad pieces of legislation are
30:46:00
retiring the Senate you know becomes a
30:50:00
little bit harder simply because the
30:53:00
people who are on
30:54:00
our let's say our side the pro patent
30:56:00
side on the Judiciary Committee tend to
30:59:00
have less rank than the others
31:03:00
now they that's good for the future but
31:08:00
how long are we gonna have to wait for
31:10:00
that future to happen I think you know
31:14:00
ironically the Senate would probably be
31:15:00
better from an innovation standpoint if
31:18:00
it flipped to Democrats but I just don't
31:21:00
see that happening you know Democrats in
31:23:00
this election cycle are playing defense
31:26:00
on too many too many seats and in too
31:30:00
many places that Trump won by double
31:32:00
digits yeah just just way out in right
31:36:00
field here these large tech companies
31:39:00
ever being split up I mean somebody's
31:41:00
coming into there getting so big now
31:42:00
Amazon and you know what and you know
31:47:00
I've been saying this privately and I
31:49:00
wrote it like maybe once is that what we
31:52:00
need is we need a trust buster like
31:54:00
Teddy Roosevelt now the reason is if you
31:58:00
look at cuz I was I was shocked because
32:00:00
I just did this on a lark this was a
32:02:00
project that Steve and I wrote about if
32:04:00
you're interested in I P watchdogging
32:06:00
and find it and I said you know Standard
32:10:00
Oil is the is the prototypical two big
32:13:00
monopolies that needs to be split up I
32:15:00
said let's take a look at what was
32:18:00
Standard Oil how big were they when the
32:21:00
government split them up and how big are
32:24:00
these companies today and I you know
32:27:00
let's just see what they are and in 2000
32:31:00
$18 Standard Oil was bringing in about a
32:34:00
billion dollars of profit a year you
32:36:00
know these tech companies are bringing
32:39:00
in you know Adobe it brings in two or
32:42:00
three times that you know Apple brings
32:45:00
in you know 50 times that I think it is
32:49:00
it's it's it's ridiculous the amount of
32:52:00
profit that these companies are bringing
32:53:00
in you know and it's it's unbelievable
32:58:00
that when you look at it and you try and
33:01:00
compare apples to apples at least on
33:04:00
that you know how big in terms of how
33:06:00
much of the akan
33:07:00
they're controlling in terms of wealth
33:11:00
there's other factors of course but on
33:14:00
that factor it was staggering to see how
33:17:00
large these companies are in comparison
33:19:00
to the relatively small standard oil
33:22:00
yeah and then I think one of these
33:28:00
companies who we've mentioned before you
33:30:00
know it already has mechanical animals
33:32:00
and horses and once they get artificial
33:34:00
intelligent mean the whole thing scares
33:35:00
the it does you know and then they don't
33:40:00
really compete against each other you
33:43:00
know they compete around each other yeah
33:46:00
and and it's I I you know I don't know
33:49:00
what the what the answer is and maybe
33:52:00
this is not gonna be an antitrust issue
33:55:00
maybe it's not gonna be a patent issue
33:58:00
but maybe it's gonna be a privacy issue
34:01:00
you know I I don't know but I mean some
34:03:00
of the stuff that you learned is just is
34:06:00
it's unbelievable I mean you just heard
34:08:00
the other day I read that Google was
34:10:00
tracking people in their location even
34:13:00
after people turned off and said don't
34:15:00
track me on their phones that that
34:17:00
button apparently didn't work you know
34:19:00
and they were just tracking everybody
34:22:00
and it hey I figure Google is listening
34:28:00
to me 24/7 recently I'm not home a lot
34:36:00
but when I am I have a green house and I
34:37:00
walked out of the house one day and a
34:39:00
guy was walking out of my house it was
34:40:00
an inventor
34:41:00
he'd seen my address and just took a
34:43:00
train up and walked in and I was sort of
34:46:00
shocked it to be honest with you and
34:47:00
after I got him off the property left
34:50:00
yeah that was his cover he was actually
34:53:00
wiring my house right right been great
34:58:00
you know just just let's give another
35:00:00
shameless plug for IP watchdog because
35:03:00
I'm such a big fan and believer in it
35:05:00
I'm assuming you're gonna go on for
35:07:00
quite a long time and how can people
35:08:00
where should they go to sign up for it
35:11:00
go to IP watch.com
35:13:00
and we published in fresh stuff every
35:16:00
day and if you want to sign up for the
35:18:00
news
35:19:00
that's probably the best way to get it
35:21:00
in your inbox we send it out first thing
35:23:00
in the morning every day with the
35:25:00
previous day's articles so you can just
35:27:00
read what you like and stay stay abreast
35:30:00
of what's going on three times a week I
35:33:00
probably take one of your articles and
35:35:00
repost it on the United minutes
35:36:00
Association site or we're on my own
35:38:00
because they really they really kept
35:41:00
great headlines and really get the
35:43:00
message across so we we appreciate
35:45:00
especially if you're an independent
35:46:00
inventor who most of people watching
35:48:00
this show will be it's it's really a
35:50:00
must for you guys so if we really
35:52:00
appreciate your hard work yeah well
35:54:00
thanks a lot Warren I really appreciate
35:56:00
yours too great such an interesting
36:00:00
story I know you know know the
36:04:00
information you know it's great about
36:05:00
what we do and our listeners and your
36:07:00
listeners a gene is that you know it's
36:10:00
so interesting and I am just so glad and
36:12:00
we talk about all the time Warren and I
36:14:00
about how we're happy that's there's
36:16:00
guys like you that are really watching
36:18:00
out for inventors I mean a lot of times
36:20:00
they feel like they're a small fry like
36:22:00
what can they do and it's just nice to
36:24:00
have people like yourself that are
36:26:00
really looking out for there for
36:27:00
everyone well thanks a lot carmine I
36:29:00
really appreciate that and I try to you
36:32:00
know just get get call straight balls
36:34:00
and strikes you know yeah no I agree in
36:37:00
it any of our listeners I just want to
36:40:00
let everybody know and Jean won't
36:41:00
mention this though but you know good IP
36:43:00
watchdog comm if you're thinking about
36:45:00
getting a patent or you want to learn
36:47:00
about patent systems please go out and
36:49:00
do that he also has a great little
36:50:00
system to file a provisional patent I
36:54:00
mean it's probably a super low cost how
36:57:00
much is how much is your sis is $99 yeah
37:00:00
I mean to file provisional patent $99
37:03:00
you can't beat it and it's not like you
37:05:00
know he's not like he's running out his
37:06:00
backdoor with sacks of money here he's
37:08:00
just really trying to help out these
37:10:00
vendors to get it done right Oh an
37:11:00
educator a teacher a professor - yeah I
37:15:00
mean it's the it's the real deal so any
37:17:00
of our inventors I just wanted to let
37:18:00
you guys know if you're thinking about
37:19:00
doing a provisional patent go on out the
37:21:00
IP watchdog and check it out it's really
37:23:00
cool thanks carmine appreciate that yeah
37:29:00
thanks guys it's good talking here oh we
37:30:00
need to do
37:31:00
more often all right take care take care
37:35:00
G is right thank you for listening to
37:38:00
the total innovation show
37:43:00
[Music]