Patents, Trademarks and Copyrights are Assets; We Discuss How to Monetize Your Intellectual Property

Protect Your Idea
Patent Help; Go Big, Go Bold Pilot Show
January 12, 2018
The One Pitch
How to Pitch Your Product; The Pitch to Get Rich Pilot Show
January 22, 2018

The Inventors Launchpad Network – Is proud to present Go Big, Go Bold, Co-Hosted by J.D. Houvener, Registered USPTO Patent Attorney of Bold IP and Carmine Denisco, Managing Partner with Inventors Launchpad. His background in business and experience as an engineer and patent attorney empowers him to clearly communicate to a broad range of inventors about their immediate and long-term needs for patenting in order to protect assets, leverage opportunities, and limit liabilities. If you have any questions on the legal side of your invention then this podcast is sure to help!

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Podcast Notes

1YouTube generated podcast notes, please excuse any typos.
0:00
hi everyone and welcome to the go big go
0:04
bold IP show my name is Carmine do disco
0:07
I have on the line my host JD who've now
0:11
hey JD over there hey man how are you
0:14
today I'm doing good and I'm doing good
0:16
it's uh it's a Monday morning we're
0:18
getting out of the cold snap here in
0:20
Florida we actually had to put on take
0:22
my shorts off I had to put on sneakers
0:24
no more flip-flops it got cold down here
0:28
mild over here no I up in the Northeast
0:31
they they're getting just slammed so
0:33
yeah we're feeling pretty fortunate
0:36
I'm enjoying no no I hear you would you
0:39
would you do over the weekend oh you
0:41
know cleaned up cleaned up but we're
0:44
still we're new year trying to get the
0:46
closet organized so we made the
0:49
pilgrimage to Ikea and we've got oh my
0:53
gosh and we started out with all this
0:55
you know Pinterest type of a picture and
0:57
my wife is like oh my gosh we got kids
1:00
and so yeah we got some stuff home but
1:03
really what's funny is that we end up
1:05
buying these things what we really
1:07
needed to do this clean yeah you know
1:10
certain do the donation do the division
1:13
so we're starting to go through some of
1:14
that that was the main weekend event our
1:18
daughters were starting them up in
1:19
soccer and my oldest he's only three but
1:22
she I'm so proud of her she's doing so
1:24
good with little little kickers class
1:27
she's in yeah yeah that's great man it's
1:30
so much fun and yeah moving I'm right
1:33
with you man and moving it I will do
1:35
almost anything you know movie and
1:38
organizing is just not something that
1:40
you know the whole time I'm doing it
1:41
alone man I can really be doing
1:43
something that I like to do or something
1:45
that really needs to be done but I don't
1:46
see that something that has to be done
1:48
but obviously it needs to be and then
1:50
when I go to Ikea it's like an all-day
1:52
event there yeah it's like a maze you
1:55
know yeah they're smart they'll they'll
1:58
feed you you know it's just comfortable
2:00
check out the showroom have a seat
2:03
yes I went there I actually went and now
2:06
he's hard you have to I went backwards I
2:08
went right to the warehouse they make it
2:10
very hard to do that what we did
2:14
that's a great idea yeah yeah just go to
2:16
where you need to your almost work to my
2:20
wife saying well we don't know what this
2:21
is gonna look like and so in 2001 myself
2:26
that would certainly be what I do no no
2:28
that's good man so well though I'm glad
2:30
I'm glad we got you on the show today I
2:31
mean it's awesome I know that we're
2:33
gonna cover so many things with the
2:35
intellectual property and it's not so
2:37
property I know people throw that word
2:39
around or that phrase around but it
2:41
encompasses so much I mean it basically
2:44
I mean all business has really built
2:46
around intellectual property in some way
2:49
I was thinking about that over the
2:50
weekend I want to talk about that you
2:51
know people say oh I got to get a patent
2:53
but there's so many more things when you
2:56
have a business besides just a patent
2:58
you know yeah no totally it's it's
3:01
pretty cool you know and of course been
3:02
a professional in the industry of course
3:04
this you know I think but I mean it's
3:06
great in that you know looking at just
3:08
innovation and we've we've done things
3:11
like innovation analysis and look at how
3:14
is what's the culture of the business
3:16
you know and making sure that innovating
3:18
is part of your business because it
3:21
really should be if you want to be
3:22
competitive you want to have a niche you
3:25
do have to have that innovation spirit
3:28
and so those things that come about are
3:30
all over the map whether it's having
3:32
trade secrets you don't have an internal
3:34
knowledge customer names databases
3:37
software maybe wasting no machines work
3:40
really well you train your staff on
3:43
specifically generating creative works I
3:46
mean gosh copyright law you know just
3:48
the things you write in blogs and
3:50
software source code developing you know
3:53
art you know artwork brands logos and
3:56
the way your website looks that's all
3:58
copyright mm-hm and then you know your
4:00
whole brand is built around and
4:02
trademark law
4:03
so today the IP covers a lot oh crap
4:05
yeah and that's something that even
4:07
myself I've been in business my whole
4:09
life I've never really worked for
4:10
anybody and I I've started and sold
4:13
several businesses and I never really
4:17
thought about everything we did was some
4:20
sort of intellectual property ryone that
4:22
even the people were buying my
4:24
businesses were never really too
4:25
concerned about the things they were
4:27
getting
4:27
is getting a little bit more now as you
4:29
get into upper-upper dollars or the
4:32
businesses are selling for a lot of
4:34
money you know then the lawyers come in
4:36
and and and a lot of things so that's
4:37
how I kind of realized the missteps I
4:39
was making in the 90s and the late 80s
4:42
because I wasn't even documenting
4:43
anything I was just out there making
4:45
money you know starting a business
4:46
thinking that man I really knew what I
4:48
was doing but in fact so important it's
4:50
really the intellectual property side is
4:52
really your business worth yeah
4:55
absolutely yeah I mean there are
4:57
certainly time you know lots of
4:58
different ways to value of business you
5:00
know and just like you said you know
5:02
those I'm sure you're not you know small
5:05
businesses but you know every business
5:07
size you know really should be including
5:11
inertial property as part of their value
5:13
now what makes it up it's a great way to
5:16
talk with potential buyers if you're
5:18
looking to so about how do you allocate
5:20
you know it's not just the cash flow
5:22
it's not just you know what's in the
5:23
bank and what's the net you know
5:25
profitability to go to look at it and
5:28
say what what assets belong to the
5:31
business you know if it's the
5:33
brick-and-mortar and the equipment fine
5:34
but a neutral property is really an
5:36
asset and it's at the eve of the house
5:38
you know it's actual ownership and
5:40
there's definite value in that but
5:42
you've got to do some homework and
5:43
understand who else might be interested
5:46
in that and so then I'm gonna say you
5:48
know for patent if you've got an issued
5:50
patent working with an attorney or
5:52
someone a professional don't we
5:54
understand how that differentiates from
5:56
others in the market and how what the
5:58
incremental change is working backwards
6:01
from a demand point of view you can
6:03
definitely see you know what what value
6:05
that would be even if you haven't
6:07
monetized that yet and put it into
6:10
actual amount someone will be willing to
6:12
pay for in the free market hmm well the
6:15
patents are always I you know added
6:17
vendors Launchpad and I'm sure you you
6:19
hear it a lot so many times a day it
6:21
seems like the patent is the big part of
6:23
intellectual property everybody talks
6:24
about the patent side of it we know
6:26
there's so much more and I actually did
6:28
get some questions in from our last show
6:31
and I maybe you know we can we can
6:33
basically go from the beginning and as
6:35
you were we were talking earlier in the
6:37
show let's start right from the
6:38
beginning and talk about what a what a
6:39
patent actually is would be
6:41
great I did they'll get one question and
6:43
I wanted to ask you before because we
6:45
seem to always run out of time because
6:46
it's very one of one of our listeners
6:50
emailed and basically it was a question
6:51
for you is you know what's the
6:54
difference in going going to school or
6:57
taking a test for a regular lawyer and I
7:00
don't want to use the word regular
7:01
because I know it's hard to be a lawyer
7:02
but then the actual going for the
7:05
patenting side of it or or being a
7:07
patent lawyer is there any difference
7:08
yeah well so there's two different
7:11
tracks and so to be in a turn okay you
7:14
have to go to law school there are
7:17
actually a few states that do allow sort
7:19
of an apprenticeship route as far as
7:21
attorney goes and you can actually study
7:23
under a attorney and as long as it's all
7:26
documented and you sit for the State Bar
7:28
okay you can be an attorney but as far
7:32
as I know to be a attorney you must be I
7:36
must have a bar number associated with
7:38
one at least one specific state and so
7:41
most states now are a part of the
7:43
Uniform bar exam and so you've got to go
7:46
through all that right course law school
7:48
bar exam that's not turning now apart
7:51
from that toilet it's totally separate
7:53
track is the patent bar okay and what's
7:57
interesting and what people don't know
7:58
this is that you don't have to be an
8:00
attorney to sit for the patent bar and
8:04
you do however have to meet certain
8:06
qualifications so in order to sit for
8:08
the patent bar you've got to have a
8:09
technical background and there's you
8:11
know I'm not going there's a lot of
8:13
detail there's three different ways you
8:14
can qualify to sit the primary way was
8:18
the way I qualified who is having a
8:20
Bachelor of Science and so there are
8:22
certain qualifying programs and as long
8:24
as they're accredited programs which
8:27
most universities are some aren't you
8:29
know for example engineering science and
8:33
math you know those are the big three
8:34
there are others and that can sort of
8:36
qualify but you may need to get
8:38
additional evidence that's you know this
8:40
category a where you can sit the pad
8:43
where there's a category B where you
8:44
simply study and pass what's called the
8:47
fundamentals of engineering exam FE exam
8:50
and that's the exam and a lot of
8:52
professional engineers take
8:55
when they're first graduating from
8:56
college and inserted this test that sort
8:59
of tests across the board all
9:00
disciplines of engineering it's a very
9:03
challenging exam if we haven't taken the
9:04
curriculum from university but some
9:08
people have done it so that's the
9:09
category B and there's this third
9:10
category which is basically your you've
9:13
been an engineer by trade but by doing
9:15
the work you know maybe you haven't gone
9:17
to school you haven't passed a test but
9:18
you've been doing what an engineer does
9:20
by trade and you can prove that that is
9:24
probably the toughest one to do to get
9:26
the examination boards to sort of admit
9:28
you to sit for the patent bar those are
9:30
the three big categories check that out
9:34
go to uspto.gov and look for more
9:35
information there but like I said it's
9:38
not required to go to law school and
9:40
that's what I did i sat and passed the
9:42
patent bar before I graduated law school
9:44
and became what's called a patent agent
9:47
patent agents are not attorneys but they
9:51
know up and down everything that a
9:54
patent attorney does about what it takes
9:56
to get a patent issue then granted and
9:58
so they know the imp
10:00
it's the manual for practicing
10:02
examiner's and there's more ya m-pam PEP
10:08
ok go look that up but that that's the
10:10
Bible and this thing is thousands of
10:13
pages deep and that is what is tested
10:17
really and what's interesting is that
10:20
that exam it's computerized now but it's
10:24
open book they've got a whole PDF but
10:27
the exam so tough that you you don't
10:30
have time to search for the answers and
10:32
there you go I don't know it a lot of
10:34
times the answers are so detailed and it
10:36
sits in a you know scenario type of deal
10:38
you use not get help
10:40
but the main was always kind of constant
10:44
getting involved and of course had a
10:45
huge change in 2013 with the American
10:47
Invents Act it's a lot of folks sitting
10:49
for the bar even now are being tested on
10:52
the law before and after where we are
10:55
now any I a so they can help in ventures
10:57
that have applications that were pending
10:59
that they filed back in 2012 or 2013 it
11:03
sort of cross over this pre post law
11:06
and so the folks that are attorneys and
11:11
that have passed the separate patent bar
11:14
get to call themselves patent attorneys
11:17
and this special designation I mean you
11:20
cannot legally call yourself a patent
11:22
attorney if you have not done both right
11:24
mom we do not legally hold a State Bar
11:27
registration nor any patent registration
11:31
number that helps explain it when did
11:35
but it's fun to explain it no it's not
11:38
yeah I mean it's I think again i think
11:40
that people get caught up in just a
11:42
lingo of patents and trademarks alone
11:44
but they never really know where that
11:46
comes from and how hard it really is you
11:49
know for you guys to build and just I
11:51
can only imagine how many changes and
11:54
updates to the laws and different things
11:55
that come to every year that you guys
11:57
got to keep up on and so it's it's
11:59
pretty it is interesting and I think
12:00
that that's why I wanted to kind of get
12:02
it out there we got an email about it we
12:04
get several emails about it and it's
12:06
great that you explained it because I
12:08
don't I don't I don't think anyone
12:10
thinks this so they shouldn't think this
12:11
I don't want them to think it's easy one
12:13
I want them to realize that you know
12:15
when you're dealing with somebody who
12:17
really is a patent attorney and does
12:19
this for a living that that is it's
12:22
imperative that you go see someone like
12:24
yourself because it's not easy and you
12:26
got to know your stuff so but you know
12:28
that bring is right right right right
12:29
into it let's let's talk a little bit
12:31
about you know what really at the
12:33
beginning of what a patent is and
12:35
consists of I think it's a great intro
12:36
into it yeah totally and you know this
12:39
is sort of the this should help people
12:41
kind of realize okay ah there are easy
12:44
I'm not afraid to ask questions because
12:46
there are no dumb questions you know I
12:48
love good I love any questions that are
12:52
curious about this that's why we're here
12:54
that's why we're doing what we're doing
12:55
and the question today what is a patent
12:58
okay it's awesome I'm happy to answer
13:00
this you know I could talk for hours but
13:03
I'm gonna try to just keep it pretty
13:04
succinct and carmine keep me on track
13:06
you know in order to talk about a pen
13:09
I'll probably have to touch on what a
13:12
patent is not right and some of the
13:14
differences between patents and
13:16
trademarks and copyrights and you know
13:19
these other areas of IP great very well
13:22
at its core and its core patents come
13:24
get their authority and their reason for
13:27
being from the Constitution way back
13:30
yeah I love this because it's more the
13:33
oldest documents to us it's caused one
13:36
to the article one clause eight okay
13:40
article one clause II I'm not going to
13:42
quote exactly but it bestows a right to
13:46
authors and inventors a for a limited
13:50
time a monopoly for giving up what they
13:56
know okay so it sort of incentivizes
14:00
authors and creators of inventors to
14:03
tell the world to register to publicize
14:06
what they've come up with
14:08
and in exchange for you know telling the
14:11
world about this greatest newest gadget
14:13
or widget or invention the US government
14:15
is going to be giving a limited monopoly
14:18
the ability to control the big four
14:21
rights right of use making selling and
14:26
importing those little bit make use sell
14:30
and import those are the big ones into
14:34
the US right when we get into
14:36
international law right now but for now
14:38
let's just focus on the US and that's
14:40
really at its heart and the writers of
14:43
the Constitution when they put this in
14:46
this was a time where there were lots of
14:50
different factions and groups and hidden
14:52
societies you know like the Masons and
14:55
different organizations that would you
14:58
know basically have large poll in the
15:01
market by having these products or
15:04
services or antidotes and different
15:07
things they would have back then and no
15:09
one knew how they could make you know
15:11
and their their technology in a lot of
15:14
cases would persist you know for a long
15:17
time and they were just starting at
15:20
universities set up and people trying to
15:22
get educated and form societies form
15:26
cities you know have them together their
15:28
own legs and this was I think I believe
15:30
one of the reasons why they did it was
15:32
so that
15:33
we would all become smart there would be
15:35
sort of this playing field that for
15:39
every each area of industry in science
15:41
that there would be a reason to to want
15:46
to share your knowledge it's really it
15:49
you know and incentivize knowledge
15:52
sharing is really what the patent law
15:55
was put in place for and to prevent this
15:58
sort of you know hiding of secrecy that
16:04
doesn't really help a society grow and
16:09
you know I think in a large part I think
16:11
it was a success you know still is a
16:12
success that's why it's still around
16:15
because it does in the end help people
16:18
become smarter when you file a patent
16:21
application after 18 months it gets
16:24
published and you know there are ways to
16:28
file a secrecy order and to keep it
16:32
unpublished but you lose a lot of your
16:34
privileges if you do that meaning you
16:36
don't get to use that as a basis to file
16:39
internationally if you file a non
16:42
publication request and there's some
16:45
extra fees involved in that and the
16:47
scrutiny there because it's it's frowned
16:51
upon right the sort of visit against the
16:53
grant the founders wanted publication
16:57
but a lot of the reasons for doing that
17:00
is because it's sort of during pendency
17:01
or it's a potential hazard to humans
17:07
like if it's like a drug or medicine
17:09
that's undergoing testing and they're
17:12
you know they haven't actually proven
17:14
all the models yet they wouldn't there
17:16
say hey look we don't want to give this
17:18
in the public before we're sure that
17:21
it's safe you know those are potential
17:23
reasons that would actually get by and
17:25
would allow a privacy secrecy order
17:28
there actually are a few that we've
17:30
worked on where the government will put
17:33
a secrecy order on the Department of
17:35
Defense we'll get a hold of these and
17:37
they screen every single application so
17:40
it's forever but it does come up where
17:42
they're gonna say look for whatever
17:44
reason we're not gonna allow this to get
17:46
to the public and the
17:47
a full separate channel where that goes
17:50
vast majority of applications get
17:52
published for the very reason of getting
17:54
the word out and moving technology
17:57
forward so let's see what is a patent so
18:02
before it before you do that do you get
18:06
a lot of inventors that I know what
18:07
inventors Launchpad here we we get a lot
18:09
of people that want to keep their stuff
18:11
secret and we kind of try to explain to
18:13
him as you're saying that with patent
18:15
it's going to be published do you get a
18:16
lot of inventors who don't realize that
18:18
and say I don't want to be published
18:20
well there's a there's a definite like
18:23
feeling a major major to get oh my gosh
18:26
what like wait before I get the grants
18:30
before I get the rights you're saying
18:32
it's gonna get published yeah yeah yeah
18:35
and so what did what I kind of do is I
18:37
kind of turned it around and helped them
18:39
motivate and say look you got to get
18:41
started either running your own business
18:44
or getting this off the ground you know
18:47
you this is you're not going to keep
18:49
this a secret if you want to get the get
18:53
those rights so it's a it's a lights of
18:56
fire definitely yeah it's a definite big
18:58
emotional thing we help coach people
19:01
through that but really I love you know
19:04
motivating them helping them think about
19:05
how they're gonna bring it to market
19:06
yeah yeah I would agree in to me it does
19:11
it likes a fire they realize you know
19:13
I've been talking about this for five
19:14
years now I'm moving forward I better
19:16
keep it moving forward and I think that
19:17
whether they like it or not it certainly
19:20
helps most or most of the percentage of
19:23
inventors it helps them keep things
19:24
moving absolutely absolutely yeah and we
19:27
have a good talk about trade secrets and
19:30
I'll keep the most part of this
19:32
discussion for a different chat but it's
19:35
a big it's a big decision on whether you
19:37
want to keep something as a trade secret
19:38
and there is a place for a trade secrets
19:40
and use these circles around this idea
19:44
of you want to patent technology that is
19:50
gonna be easy to be reverse engineered
19:53
when you sell it okay and so if you sell
19:57
it you know a new watch or a new
19:59
ballpoint pen
20:00
you know could you competitor break it
20:03
apart take the parts and see how you put
20:05
that spring together you know or how you
20:06
got that ink to come through from the
20:09
actual product they physically
20:11
reverse-engineer or you know technically
20:14
went through a computer technology
20:15
reverse-engineer what you're doing and
20:18
replicate it if they think they could
20:21
then you really should be seeking patent
20:23
protection before that but if it's more
20:26
akin to you know coca-cola and and the
20:29
liquid you're producing no matter what
20:32
they do and they can boil it down and
20:34
try to get all its elements they can't
20:35
figure out the timing and the heat and
20:38
the proportions and all that just right
20:40
there's really no reason for you to seek
20:43
patent protection and so it's not smart
20:44
for you to try to seek a patent because
20:46
you can keep that secret unless like
20:48
Coke has for over a hundred years so
20:51
there's that discussion as well so
20:54
sometimes it is a good idea to keep
20:56
things secret not file for patent
21:00
protection so a patent a patent itself
21:04
you know it's a actually I've got a copy
21:07
of one so this will be interesting
21:09
oh yeah okay great cool yeah whatever
21:13
places yeah I mean this is kind of funny
21:15
what it would look like yeah yeah the
21:17
ribbon copy of a patent right
21:19
okay it's um reflection and it looks
21:22
kind of old-school you know I guess you
21:24
know letters and it's gonna have the
21:28
director's name at the bottom so it's
21:31
just kind of fun to actually see the
21:32
document though this one in particular
21:33
is on a pretty cool lighting device it's
21:39
actually for this specific application
21:41
is for marijuana it's actually able to
21:45
grow based on the way it lights and the
21:48
feet the pattern in sequence and the
21:50
type of light helps the plant bud and
21:53
provide a higher concentration for
21:57
medicinal marijuana yeah there's all
22:00
kinds of applications I mean the world
22:01
of patenting is so broad that's why I
22:03
love it you know it's just innovations
22:05
everywhere so that's what document looks
22:08
like that it's kind of fun I like to
22:09
show people they're watching I'll have
22:11
that as their in their goal library you
22:14
know
22:14
they can picture you know I keep getting
22:16
that and you know so there's four rights
22:21
okay I'm making the invention selling
22:24
the invention importing it and and make
22:28
make you sell and import what's nice
22:31
about having a patent once once you get
22:34
through the process is is having those
22:37
rights and being able to exclude others
22:42
it's really the rights are really
22:44
exclusionary so you have sort of a
22:48
shield in that regard you know in sort
22:51
of the analogy prevent anyone else from
22:53
doing that but as it as it happens in
22:58
Brill world you you've got to be
23:00
proactive and enforce your rights it's
23:04
not it's not going to happen
23:06
infringers aren't gonna knock on your
23:08
door and say can I please get a license
23:10
to use your technology they're gonna
23:14
just be out there they're gonna be out
23:15
selling and making things because that's
23:18
what people do you know people will be
23:20
out there in society trying to do their
23:23
best in business and just in life and as
23:27
a patent holder it's really your duty
23:30
and your job to enforce your rights and
23:32
so you can hire professional absolutely
23:35
you can do it yourself it could be a lot
23:36
of work making sure you monitor the
23:38
market look at the areas of technology
23:41
that you've got a patent in to make sure
23:43
that no one is it is infringing and you
23:47
know you can do this in a couple ways
23:48
you know one is to actually be in
23:49
business and you know it's a great thing
23:53
to be doing while you're in business is
23:54
to monitor the market alright you're in
23:57
the process you know you're in the
23:58
process of making these lights you know
24:00:00
like we had this example you know you're
24:03:00
gonna want to know who are you buying
24:05:00
your lights from maybe who else are they
24:06:00
something to and eligible about what
24:08:00
else is out there it's gonna be smart
24:10:00
for you know in terms of how to price
24:12:00
your system yeah you're gonna want to
24:14:00
look at competitors you should be
24:18:00
definitely sure to look what else is
24:20:00
being sold and published in you know in
24:24:00
today in your area in your in your
24:26:00
industry
24:27:00
and if you see something that looks
24:28:00
similar to your invention it's worth
24:32:00
your while to begin the enforcement
24:34:00
process and work with a patent attorney
24:36:00
the way that starts is usually with an
24:40:00
infringement analysis one thing that can
24:43:00
precede that would be an opinion on
24:46:00
validity so more and more with regard to
24:49:00
computerized inventions and software
24:53:00
especially there's been a lot of concern
24:56:00
you know rights holders that have gotten
24:58:00
patents issued in the past five to ten
25:00:00
years are really worried that gosh is my
25:03:00
is my software invention my business
25:05:00
method that I have patented would this
25:07:00
hold up if I were to go sue a big
25:09:00
company because we've seen these
25:11:00
decisions come down we've heard the
25:13:00
media that all software inventions are
25:15:00
gone you know very hard to get and
25:17:00
courts are striking them down and so
25:20:00
it's really important you come talk to a
25:22:00
patent attorney because they understand
25:24:00
the law and they understand where the
25:26:00
judges have ruled how the cases have
25:28:00
come down and where the line is on
25:30:00
eligibility under Section 101 of the
25:35:00
patent code which is now really clear
25:38:00
about software inventions and it's it's
25:42:00
talking about abstract ideas and making
25:44:00
sure that your invention is not akin to
25:47:00
an abstract idea much like you know a
25:49:00
law of gravity or real some sort of
25:54:00
equation or algorithm something that's
25:58:00
performed you know purely in the ether
26:01:00
you know a database is talking to
26:02:00
databases using just kind of numerical
26:05:00
values and inputs or without any real
26:08:00
draw to the physical world that's going
26:11:00
to be something that the courts will
26:12:00
probably see as an abstract idea if you
26:14:00
if you're purely just punching numbers
26:17:00
and doing things that are you know much
26:20:00
akin to a calculator that it's not going
26:23:00
to be patentable so it's certainly
26:26:00
something we do is provide opinions for
26:29:00
people that hate you know they come to
26:31:00
us when they see someone infringing you
26:33:00
know they've done they're done a good
26:35:00
job monitor the market and they see
26:38:00
someone hey I think they're they're
26:39:00
doing what we've got
26:40:00
they're infringing our patent and while
26:46:00
we want to oftentimes start with an
26:48:00
infringement analysis and you know send
26:49:00
them a nasty Graham cease and desist
26:51:00
letter it's important a lot of times to
26:54:00
do that validity of work and take a look
26:57:00
at what what the claims they have
26:58:00
written down and make sure that we sort
27:02:00
of put ourselves in the shoes of the P
27:04:00
tab which is the patent trial and appeal
27:07:00
board they will do that analysis I just
27:09:00
talked about and whether it's abstract
27:11:00
or not and to make sure those claims
27:14:00
would be would hold up right if we were
27:16:00
to go sue you know write that nasty
27:19:00
letter and it goes to trial where those
27:22:00
claims hold up if they tried to
27:24:00
invalidate the claims under the law the
27:26:00
way it is today so once that opinion is
27:29:00
down let's say yeah we we do we think
27:31:00
this these claims are valid we would be
27:35:00
upheld then we do the infringement
27:37:00
analysis okay you look at those claims
27:39:00
and the claims of patent it's a whole
27:43:00
discussion thank you Matt I mean you can
27:46:00
tell there's a lot to think all right so
27:51:00
the claim of the patent you know what
27:53:00
bit when they look at a patent like okay
27:55:00
cool you know this this flowchart you
27:57:00
know gosh all these words you know cool
28:02:00
diagrams and pictures and nice device
28:05:00
but the actual patent what they have
28:08:00
rights on they tuck it away at the end
28:12:00
all right and it's on this part let me
28:15:00
can read it but it's I claim you know
28:18:00
okay it's the very button it's a list
28:20:00
and numbered list that is what they own
28:22:00
it's nothing they don't own anything
28:25:00
about these images or pictures or
28:26:00
specification this is what the Patent
28:29:00
Office says they own so it's usually a
28:30:00
much smaller part of the technology and
28:33:00
for this specific one I mean it's we've
28:36:00
defined specific wavelengths of light
28:39:00
right you know 630 nanometers to 9 699 a
28:44:00
meters directed within specific numbers
28:46:00
of minutes you know so people generally
28:49:00
seen to mention my god gosh that's
28:52:00
already been done or there
28:54:00
Jeff Lane fringing look at what they're
28:56:00
selling well you've got to know your
28:58:00
claims and what the words say in order
29:01:00
to really assess infringement so what we
29:03:00
do is we'll talk the client after then
29:05:00
the opinion will say we'll take a look
29:06:00
at the claim okay Wow so you you know
29:09:00
you're gonna patent a great you know in
29:12:00
its covering you know a specific type of
29:14:00
metal now maybe it's covering specific
29:16:00
types of shapes of metals for that
29:20:00
device you know and okay so what you're
29:24:00
telling us and we've got a couple of
29:25:00
images and we did we compare what they
29:26:00
own versus what's being published and
29:28:00
sold as the alleged infringement and we
29:31:00
do a step by step claim by claim
29:33:00
analysis to really see if their rights
29:37:00
are being infringed or not and in almost
29:39:00
every case it's usually infringement of
29:44:00
not not as clear as they thought it was
29:48:00
because it's it's it's tough it takes a
29:51:00
lot of analysis takes really careful eye
29:53:00
but what's nice is it once if there is
29:56:00
infringement we've got a bulletproof
29:58:00
case against the other side and you know
30:02:00
99 plus percent at a time once we do
30:05:00
that type of an opinion the letter we
30:08:00
sent I mean it's gonna below I mean it
30:11:00
hits and if there's an attorney another
30:13:00
side they're like wow we need to settle
30:16:00
you know we do not want to go to court
30:19:00
you know and that's the way we act now
30:21:00
there are I'm not gonna name a there are
30:23:00
firms that will just write letters you
30:27:00
know and they'll just skip those two
30:28:00
steps of the validity and infringement
30:30:00
opinion and they'll just shoot out much
30:33:00
like are they're infringing on they'll
30:36:00
send that nasty gram without having done
30:38:00
that work and in my opinion that's
30:40:00
really it's no it's sanctionable there's
30:43:00
it's really it's malpractice you know I
30:45:00
suppose it's quite horrible you ought to
30:46:00
have not done your homework and to just
30:51:00
sort of start a potentially frivolous
30:52:00
lawsuit you know so that's one big thing
30:54:00
that you know we see it's just ugly but
30:58:00
that's what you want make sure you work
31:00:00
with the right firm that that does their
31:03:00
work does the diligence knows knows
31:06:00
about the infringement in detail before
31:08:00
they
31:08:00
those types of letters yeah I am I
31:11:00
noticed here we had a few of our
31:14:00
inventors notice some products on the
31:16:00
market it happens and you probably get a
31:18:00
lot of it it happens and the inventors
31:20:00
are very emotionally attached so
31:21:00
anything that was close they were very
31:22:00
very diligent you know to check to make
31:26:00
sure but what we found is that a lot of
31:28:00
people even they might be infringing and
31:30:00
they don't even know they are it's not
31:32:00
like they're bad people I mean does that
31:34:00
seem like it happens they just didn't
31:35:00
know they just were making the same type
31:37:00
of products or something close yeah
31:39:00
absolutely no happens all the time yeah
31:41:00
it's and that's why it we do recommend a
31:43:00
soft approach of the you know not such a
31:48:00
huge aggressive stance you know making
31:51:00
sure they have notice of the potential
31:54:00
infringement and see see how they react
31:57:00
we have had folks that are just like oh
31:59:00
my gosh you know I can't believe you
32:01:00
know no problem we'll stop production
32:03:00
tell me what I got to do and they'll
32:05:00
cooperate and you don't need to you know
32:08:00
flex your muscles and act like a jerk
32:10:00
you know and you can get it done I've
32:13:00
seen it done without us getting involved
32:15:00
so without attorneys you can do that
32:18:00
just give em a call you know look you
32:21:00
know it looks like and be nice it
32:24:00
appears you know from what I can tell
32:27:00
you know this does seem to read on the
32:30:00
claims of my patented open having
32:32:00
discussion someone that's open minded
32:35:00
and an understanding will will probably
32:39:00
comply you know probably we want to work
32:42:00
with you I do think it's worthwhile
32:45:00
talking with an attorney just make sure
32:46:00
you know your options you know there's a
32:48:00
lot of time really good of a site to
32:49:00
that if someone's already done the work
32:51:00
and lined up a supplier and a
32:53:00
manufacturer and hey you know how's the
32:55:00
product on the shelves already cash why
32:58:00
not just turn a license you know give
33:00:00
them a license and you know monetize
33:04:00
your invention yeah those are the types
33:06:00
of things that firms like ours do and we
33:08:00
can help you drop an agreement you know
33:10:00
we make a nice royalty and everybody
33:12:00
wins you know in that case yeah that I
33:16:00
would definitely agree with your hundred
33:18:00
percent but what I would mention is like
33:19:00
what you said is before you make that
33:21:00
phone
33:22:00
call send JD and email her or or give
33:25:00
them a call or give your attorney a call
33:26:00
because you want to say the right things
33:28:00
and if possible have someone else call
33:32:00
if you're not unless you can handle it
33:35:00
or not be too mostly attached to it
33:36:00
because you know again the other person
33:38:00
is going to be mostly attached so
33:41:00
sometimes it's better to get some people
33:42:00
together that that may not be emotional
33:45:00
about it but as JD said most people
33:48:00
aren't doing it on purpose I don't think
33:51:00
I've run into one where they knew you
33:54:00
know that it that it was so so I agree
33:56:00
it's great advice there's no doubt about
33:57:00
it real quick and you give by the way
34:00:00
that the patent explanation was awesome
34:02:00
I'm glad the listeners are gonna get
34:04:00
that out of it the different types of
34:06:00
patent moves real quick I mean run at a
34:07:00
time but what are the different types of
34:09:00
patents that are out there because this
34:10:00
sometimes gets me yeah no this is good
34:12:00
and thank you I should have talked about
34:14:00
this so there are three major types
34:17:00
there's one called the utility patent
34:19:00
and that's what I that's what most
34:21:00
people think of and that's kind of what
34:22:00
I was describing most the time now
34:24:00
that's one of you've got a pen that has
34:26:00
some functionality right that's real
34:30:00
functionality usefulness about it that's
34:34:00
what's being protected is what's
34:36:00
functional so the utility patents there
34:39:00
are design patents design pads that you
34:43:00
get 14 years after issue is the that's a
34:47:00
little bit smaller time frame where
34:48:00
utility patents you get 20 years from
34:50:00
the date of application design patents
34:53:00
are 14 years from the date of issue
34:55:00
design patents are not about the
34:59:00
functionality it protects you just the
35:01:00
way something looks ok so just the
35:03:00
aesthetics the ornamentation and the
35:08:00
shapes you know shapes with and but not
35:10:00
what it does and it the applications are
35:15:00
a lot shorter you know it's just the
35:16:00
images you really only have to claim in
35:20:00
words you say hey what's done in the
35:22:00
image pretty simple and you got lots are
35:26:00
from the views don't get me wrong and
35:27:00
you protect things that are quite
35:29:00
complicated through design pads the
35:32:00
third type is the most rare it's called
35:34:00
a plant
35:35:00
and and it's what you think of it's
35:37:00
something that grows this is and it's a
35:40:00
weird name but it's actually
35:41:00
reproducible meaning it can be produced
35:44:00
in in lab setting right and so once you
35:46:00
figure out that strain and the way it
35:48:00
can can grow is if it's novel
35:52:00
non-obvious and has a you know
35:57:00
functionality so it's similar to utility
35:59:00
in that aspect but it's something that
36:00:00
grows it's from nature
36:03:00
it can be protected under plant patents
36:05:00
has a 20 year same window as utility
36:08:00
there are some different requirements to
36:11:00
actually ascending in a specimen for
36:13:00
analysis you know they actually had that
36:15:00
requirement way back for utility
36:18:00
inventions good to send in your
36:19:00
invention but became owners writing of
36:22:00
this there's not enough space right
36:24:00
right we're almost at 10 million patents
36:26:00
now oh yeah I would love to have seen
36:29:00
that warehouse we're out of room you
36:36:00
know but yeah the plant the plant deal I
36:38:00
you know we have you know we had a
36:42:00
couple folks that have done applications
36:44:00
we end up bringing another specialist
36:46:00
because of the specific area but there
36:48:00
are applications they get filed quite a
36:51:00
bit on things like fruits you know
36:54:00
pineapples apple orchards you know and
36:59:00
hops and and while people want to
37:03:00
protect things like marijuana they're
37:05:00
not it's still a federally controlled
37:07:00
substance and I know there's just an
37:08:00
announcement by the tribal
37:09:00
administration or kind of a buttress
37:12:00
that and the fact that hey this is still
37:14:00
illegal there's no way you could ever
37:16:00
send a specimen he's using the federal
37:19:00
postal service so it just wouldn't work
37:21:00
don't recommend it it's gonna happen
37:25:00
eventually so that I mean that aside
37:28:00
anything you can grow it is potentially
37:30:00
protectable there is one cool thing
37:32:00
about platon plant patents that i kind
37:34:00
of like in that there's a small carve
37:37:00
out for discovering so pure discovery
37:41:00
not inventor ship so if you're if you're
37:43:00
out there and you discover a plant a new
37:48:00
and novel plan that has
37:49:00
as possible you can get a plan for
37:52:00
protection over a naturally developed
37:56:00
piece of horticulture so it's out there
37:59:00
is rare it's it's interesting part those
38:02:00
are the big three hopefully it helps
38:04:00
yeah no it definitely helps them you
38:06:00
know it's funny because I have another
38:08:00
question another question we're gonna
38:09:00
have so many shows and yeah just real
38:12:00
quick and I know that we're running out
38:14:00
of time why the difference in years
38:16:00
what's what's the big deal why 20 why 14
38:19:00
why why um and if we don't know it's
38:23:00
okay we'll cover in a different show
38:25:00
it's just weird to me that is different
38:26:00
well well they what they want right yeah
38:29:00
I I don't know I don't know I would only
38:31:00
be speculating that they they're
38:34:00
actually trying to get the actual
38:38:00
duration of enforceability to be
38:41:00
equivalent they've kept it at 20 years
38:44:00
for utility because sometimes it takes
38:47:00
four years five years to get through the
38:50:00
patent system to be issued and design
38:56:00
patents can shoot through okay that make
38:58:00
sense nine months so the pendency issue
39:01:00
I think that's one of the reasons why
39:04:00
they're trying to do that and they don't
39:07:00
want they don't want people to know
39:12:00
block out areas of innovation so what
39:14:00
what people can do and although people
39:16:00
will try you know think of the iPhone
39:18:00
you know they'll get both utility in a
39:23:00
design protection you know they don't
39:26:00
want one to expire well yeah they don't
39:33:00
want you to have more than that 20 years
39:36:00
so they wouldn't want you to get a
39:38:00
utility patent use it for 20 years then
39:41:00
get a design cut ah okay they want them
39:44:00
to run at the same time roughly the same
39:47:00
time period that makes sense that makes
39:49:00
sense okay I could thank you to go back
39:52:00
and think on it yeah oh yeah yeah we're
39:55:00
gonna cover so much I mean just in
39:56:00
trademarks and and so many different
39:59:00
things I mean we're that's what I love
40:01:00
about getting this
40:02:00
because every listener is gonna have
40:05:00
multiple questions I mean just somebody
40:06:00
who's run the brisbin's gets a gets a
40:08:00
patent and then they're gonna start a
40:10:00
business there's gonna be so many more
40:11:00
things that this show is going to cover
40:14:00
for them it's it's just awesome and and
40:17:00
that's why I mean as you're talking I'm
40:19:00
I'm like scrolling down several more
40:21:00
questions it's just it's gonna it's
40:23:00
gonna be non-stop
40:24:00
I know is this it's pretty fun yeah just
40:27:00
will make it organic we'll try to have
40:29:00
one - one or two major themes but right
40:31:00
it's gonna go in different directions
40:33:00
I'm glad we got a few questions from
40:35:00
last time I'm guessing when I get some
40:37:00
more from today yeah yeah yeah yeah so
40:43:00
so questions how should they get in
40:46:00
touch with you sure yeah so the main way
40:48:00
is to go to our website or our first
40:50:00
thing we make a priority in our business
40:53:00
is education so going to bold IP com
40:57:00
that's bold333 Reno or Meghan we'll be
41:23:00
ready to take your call I'm open to
41:26:00
email if you guys want to email me I'm I
41:29:00
will respond within a business day at JD
41:32:00
at bold IP comm awesome we don't get too
41:37:00
many attorney giving out their email
41:38:00
address so it's awesome and and you know
41:41:00
what this is such a hot topic and and
41:44:00
that's why I am so grateful you're
41:45:00
giving your time for this show we're
41:48:00
gonna do a lot of shows we're gonna put
41:49:00
a lot of information out there and you
41:52:00
know I don't think that listeners
41:54:00
realize you know what listening and
41:57:00
educating education from somebody like
41:59:00
you was worth I mean you know it's all
42:01:00
education purposes but this is a lot of
42:03:00
info that we're going to be giving out
42:04:00
so I think it's just awesome
42:06:00
me too yeah this is excellent thank you
42:08:00
to the inventor's launchpad
42:10:00
we're excited about this here it's fun
42:13:00
as I get talking like the time just
42:14:00
ticks by
42:15:00
the answer right we hit a lot of
42:18:00
subjects and I'm excited about how how
42:20:00
well you guys have been able to put out
42:21:00
the material so yeah 100% man x going I
42:26:00
got my producer across for me going but
42:31:00
no it's a lot of fun and I know it's
42:33:00
gonna it's gonna the time this goes by
42:34:00
watching the clock tick away and I'm
42:36:00
going man I got all these questions so
42:37:00
it's all good
42:39:00
thank you all to all of our listeners I
42:41:00
know you got a lot of choices out there
42:42:00
to tune in to podcasts are awesome a lot
42:45:00
of audiobooks a lot of things and we
42:48:00
appreciate you JD and I both appreciate
42:49:00
you spending your time with us and
42:51:00
listening to us and to all you people
42:53:00
that are sending some emails out or you
42:54:00
listen to send an email to us and
42:56:00
leaving reviews on iTunes and Google
42:58:00
Play we really appreciate our listeners
43:00:00
and we're here to help is in any way
43:02:00
possible so again for JD and myself we
43:07:00
thank you for listening and we'll catch
43:08:00
you next time
43:09:00
on the go bold IP show

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